NE is overrated

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Re: NE is overrated

Postby Cdragon » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:56 pm

mike wrote:
williewasgreat wrote:
bud fox wrote:
Pugger wrote:What NE has done with Belichick and Brady is unprecedented and we won't see another dynasty like this in a long, long time. With the draft like it is today and FA the league wants parity but somehow they are bucking that trend so I don't know how you can say they are overrated. With Brady's age that dynasty, unless they can find another elite QB to follow TB, is nearing the end. Only one other franchise has been anywhere near as successful as far as reaching the playoffs and/or appearing in the their conference championship games because they had back to back HOF QBs.


70s Pittsburgh? Pats 5/7 with core is remarkable.

The packers Favre or Rodgers era aren't even close.


I think the 60's Packers rank just as high. 5 championships in 7 years.


NE is the best team of the FA era, but imho pales in comparison to the 60's Packers, or 70's Pittsburg teams, this is a watered down era, the nfl had half the teams it does now, that translates to every team having better players, which translates to much stiffer competition, GB was a powerhouse for 5 straight years, Pittsburg for 4 out of 6 years.

I give NE credit for being able to rebuild and rebound back to championship form so often using FA so affectively, but imo they still don't compare to the earlier Packer/Steeler teams, or even the 1980's 49ers.


60's you had competition from the AFL, 70's the league merged. Not as many teams as today but the population to draw from was about half. You could hit a one or two drafts with 17 rounds and be set for a decade. Now you keep a couple stars and roll your roster over every 4 years. It is tougher now to stay at the top.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby texas » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:23 pm

TheGreenMan wrote:So, correct me if I'm wrong, but texas didn't you stand by what most of Lyricist's "Belichickism " literates? In simple terms, we suck at drafting, we suck at getting talent, and everything green and yellow should be compared to the all and might that is the New England Patriots?

I just need lupe in here agreeing with texas. I literally cannot handle this anymore. :lol:


I think they're the model NFL franchise currently, but they're not the GOAT.

I think they're overrated, but also that they're the best team in the league by a pretty large margin. Those things don't contradict each other.

But this "greatest ever" talk is what I disagree with. And also, I'm just telling it like it is- the AFC blows minus a couple top teams, and it has been this way for a long time. Perhaps during NE's early run there were some decent teams, but since 2003 or 2005 or so, barring a random year here or there like 2012 Ravens or 2005(?) Chargers, the AFC has been:

Patriots
Whatever team Manning is on
(half the time) the Steelers
and everything else is complete $#!!.

For NE's cakewalk in the AFC East, they get rewarded with the Titans, who would probably be the last-placed NFC team. For Philadelphia's hard work, they get their QB's knee blown out and have to play the red-hot Falcons, who were last year's top team and are a top contender this year.

You give GB a free trip to the NFCCG every year, and we'd have 5 SBs too.

Face it, a large part of NE's success has come from playing in the kiddie pool.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby Pugger » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:33 pm

texas wrote:
TheGreenMan wrote:So, correct me if I'm wrong, but texas didn't you stand by what most of Lyricist's "Belichickism " literates? In simple terms, we suck at drafting, we suck at getting talent, and everything green and yellow should be compared to the all and might that is the New England Patriots?

I just need lupe in here agreeing with texas. I literally cannot handle this anymore. :lol:


I think they're the model NFL franchise currently, but they're not the GOAT.

I think they're overrated, but also that they're the best team in the league by a pretty large margin. Those things don't contradict each other.

But this "greatest ever" talk is what I disagree with. And also, I'm just telling it like it is- the AFC blows minus a couple top teams, and it has been this way for a long time. Perhaps during NE's early run there were some decent teams, but since 2003 or 2005 or so, barring a random year here or there like 2012 Ravens or 2005(?) Chargers, the AFC has been:

Patriots
Whatever team Manning is on
(half the time) the Steelers
and everything else is complete $#!!.

For NE's cakewalk in the AFC East, they get rewarded with the Titans, who would probably be the last-placed NFC team. For Philadelphia's hard work, they get their QB's knee blown out and have to play the red-hot Falcons, who were last year's top team and are a top contender this year.

You give GB a free trip to the NFCCG every year, and we'd have 5 SBs too.

Face it, a large part of NE's success has come from playing in the kiddie pool.


Yes, NE plays in the AFC Least. They beat up on the Bills, Fins and Jets every year. Again this year the NFC is superior to the AFC. The 2 WC teams in the AFC would have sat home if they were in the NFC.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby texas » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:35 pm

lupethefiasco wrote:They still have to play the best of the NFC.


By getting a free pass to the championship, a team will have superior results to an equal team without the same free pass.

Let's say there are 6 solid teams in the league any given year, 2 in the AFC, and 4 in the NFC. Additionally, 2 of the NFC teams have to play losable games before having to play the other 2 NFC teams.

Over time, the AFC teams will be over-represented due to the NFC teams knocking each other off. It's just probability.

A solid NFC team will have 2 or maybe 3 points at which they could lose before even going to the Championship. An AFC team who is equal in all regards will have 0 or 1 points at which they could lose. Thus, even though we guarantee at least one NFC team will make it to the championship (which is anyone's game at that point), due to there being many competent NFC teams, their success over the years will be distributed amongst more, causing each individual team to have less.

It's simple math. If you have a cherry pie, and you split it between 2 people, each person gets 1/2 a pie. If you have a pumpkin pie, and you split it between 6 people, each person gets 1/6th of the pie. Did the people getting the cherry pie do anything to deserve 3x as much pie? No, they benefited from having less people with whom they had to share.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby raptorman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:41 pm

Pugger wrote:What NE has done with Belichick, Brady and their defense, is unprecedented and we won't see another dynasty like this in a long, long time. With the draft like it is today and FA the league wants parity but somehow they are bucking that trend so I don't know how you can say they are overrated. With Brady's age that dynasty, unless they can find another elite QB to follow TB, is nearing the end. Only one other franchise has been anywhere near as successful as far as reaching the playoffs and/or appearing in the their conference championship games because they had back to back HOF QBs.

Fixed it for you. Now it's a correct statement. :D
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby HeavyD » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:48 pm

Like the Packers, NE was able to rack up wins playing in an easy division for years, which clearly helped them gain a first round bye and home field advantage, is true, but to say that their super bowl victories in the salary cap era is not an impressive achievement is preposterous.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby Cdragon » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:56 am

They still have to the play the games. They aren't sitting Brady for 16 games and magically walk into the SB. He shares the risk and takes his hits. Teams never lay down. They fight them hard so they don't get embarrassed.

You left out the Ravens but the Pats success leads to the teams in that division tearing down their systems before they have a chance to get good. Good coaches bite the dust because they don't have immediate success. That is part of their legacy.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby texas » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:09 am

HeavyD wrote:Like the Packers, NE was able to rack up wins playing in an easy division for years, which clearly helped them gain a first round bye and home field advantage, is true, but to say that their super bowl victories in the salary cap era is not an impressive achievement is preposterous.


Good thing nobody is saying that.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby GeMatt » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:57 am

They sure looked overrated tonight against the Titans! :(
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby packfntk » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:33 pm

GeMatt wrote:They sure looked overrated tonight against the Titans! :(


Again though, they played a non-playoff worthy team in the divisional round. Ugh.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby RingoCStarrQB » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:39 pm

Nope .......... the Cowboys are overrated .......... not the Patriots. The Falcons are overrated too :rotf:

Since winning Super Bowl 30 22 years ago the Cowboys have gone 3-9 in the playoffs.

Conversely, I think I heard on the radio this morning that the Patriots are in their 7th straight AFC Championship game.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby raptorman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:02 pm

BTW, I'd like to point out that once again the New England defense held the other team to less than 17 points. But Brady get's all the credit.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby BF004 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:52 pm

Brady has never won a SB without a top 10 D. Three of the time they were #1 or #2.

We will win many Super Bowl and go to many more championship games with top 5 or top 2 defenses.
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby texas » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:23 pm

packfntk wrote:
GeMatt wrote:They sure looked overrated tonight against the Titans! :(


Again though, they played a non-playoff worthy team in the divisional round. Ugh.


Yeah, this is like my whole point. Everyone talking about how great they looked is missing the point.

"Why aren't the Packers in the playoffs? We looked great against the Browns in the 4th quarter!"
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Re: NE is overrated

Postby GeMatt » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:26 am

packfntk wrote:
GeMatt wrote:They sure looked overrated tonight against the Titans! :(


Again though, they played a non-playoff worthy team in the divisional round. Ugh.



Every team that made the playoffs is a playoff worthy team! :roll:
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