Broncos Week Thread

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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby go pak go » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:15 pm

The Packers have two huge road games in the month of November and this one is not one of them.
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby HeavyD » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:16 pm

Pckfn23 wrote:Football Outsiders
Offense:
Green Bay - 4
Denver - 32

Defense:
Green Bay - 6
Denver - 1


What type of metrics are rolled up into these rankings?
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby BF004 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:22 pm

go pak go wrote:The Packers have two huge road games in the month of November and this one is not one of them.

Yep, at the same time, best games to lose (for tie-breaking procedure's) are the non-conference games. Would much rather beat Carolina than Denver if I only get to chose one.

After that is 4 straight division games well.

We'll be fun to see where we are after 6 more.
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby lulu » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:38 pm

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/72460/packers-coach-mike-mccarthy-makes-all-the-right-bye-week-moves

Packers coach Mike McCarthy makes all the right bye-week moves

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- Coach Mike McCarthy and his staff have this bye-week thing figured out.

How else to explain the Green Bay Packers’ six-game winning streak in post-bye games? They haven’t lost one since 2008, and even that was an overtime game on the road against the Tennessee Titans.

In his career, McCarthy has an 8-1 record in games after the bye, matching Marv Levy for the best record by an NFL coach in post-bye games (minimum of eight).

Just like he did last season, McCarthy gave his players bonus time off during last week’s bye. The collective bargaining agreement requires four days off; McCarthy gave his players nearly twice that. They were free to leave after the 27-20 win over the San Diego Chargers and didn’t have to be back in town until Sunday night for a Monday afternoon practice that he said will focus on fundamentals with an eye toward Sunday’s showdown between two 6-0 teams in Denver.

“This game is about trying to improve continuously, and staying true to fundamentals is something that we do each and every day,” McCarthy said last Monday as the bye week began. “I guarantee you as I stand here today, [when] we get together as a staff, it's going to go back to fundamentals. We're going to spend more time on fundamentals next week with the extra day getting ready for the Broncos.”

Last year at the bye week, McCarthy made one of the boldest moves of his tenure with the Green Bay Packers when he and defensive coordinator Dom Capers moved Clay Matthews to inside linebacker.

In the first game that followed, Matthews recorded 10 tackles and a sack in the Packers’ 55-14 blowout of the Chicago Bears. Including that game, the Packers have outscored their opponents 203-84 in the past six games after the bye, all wins. The streak also includes a 22-9 win over the Detroit Lions in 2013, a 31-3 win at the Minnesota Vikings in 2010 and a 26-0 win over the Lions in 2009.

What bold move will McCarthy make this year?

If there is one, it might be on the offensive side of the ball, where the Packers have struggled to replace deep-threat receiver Jordy Nelson since his preseason knee injury.

Perhaps it will be as simple as the return of receiver Davante Adams, who has missed the past three games because of an ankle injury. In those games, Aaron Rodgers and the offense have averaged just 20.3 points per game (not including the Packers’ defensive touchdown against the St. Louis Rams).

“We’re going to be happy to have him back, obviously,” offensive play-caller Tom Clements said last week. “We try to each week come up with a plan that we think is going to be effective against the defense that we’re playing, and we try to utilize the abilities of everyone who’s available. Davante has a lot of ability and we’re going to try to take advantage of that.”

With a week to prepare, perhaps Clements and McCarthy came up with a way to utilize Adams’ ability to stretch the field.

“I think the biggest thing is that it gives the players and the coaches a time to get refreshed because the season can become a grind, and to get a few days off and prepare for the next opponent, you have a little bit more time and it’s not at such a hurried pace,” Clements said. “That, combined with the health of the players, usually results in a good performance.”
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby Pckfn23 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:57 pm

HeavyD wrote:
Pckfn23 wrote:Football Outsiders
Offense:
Green Bay - 4
Denver - 32

Defense:
Green Bay - 6
Denver - 1


What type of metrics are rolled up into these rankings?

One running back runs for three yards. Another running back runs for three yards. Which is the better run? This sounds like a stupid question, but it isn’t. In fact, this question is at the heart of nearly all of the analysis on Football Outsiders.
Several factors can differentiate one three-yard run from another. What is the down and distance? Is it third-and-2 or second-and-15? Where on the field is the ball? Does the player get only three yards because he hits the goal line and scores? Is the player’s team up by two touchdowns in the fourth quarter, and thus running out the clock; or down by two touchdowns, and thus facing a defense that is playing purely against the pass? Is the running back playing against the porous defense of the Raiders, or the stalwart defense of the Bears?
Conventional NFL statistics value plays based solely on their net yardage. The NFL determines the best players by adding up all their yards no matter what situations they came in or how many plays it took to get them. Now, why would they do that? Football has one objective -- to get to the end zone -- and two ways to achieve that -- by gaining yards and achieving first downs. These two goals need to be balanced to determine a player’s value or a team’s performance. All the yards in the world won’t help a team win if they all come in six-yard chunks on third-and-10.
The popularity of fantasy football only exacerbates the problem. Fans have gotten used to judging players based on how much they help fantasy teams win and lose, not how much they help real teams win and lose. Typical fantasy scoring further skews things by counting the yard between the one and the goal line as 61 times more important than all the other yards on the field (each yard worth 0.1 points, a touchdown worth 6). Let’s say Larry Fitzgerald catches a pass on third-and-15 and goes 50 yards but gets tackled two yards from the goal line, and then Andre Ellington takes the ball on first-and-goal from the two-yard line and plunges in for the score. Has Ellington done something special? Not really. When an offense gets the ball on first-and-goal at the two-yard line, they're expected to score a touchdown five out of six times. Ellington is getting credit for the work done by the passing game.
Doing a better job of distributing credit for scoring points and winning games is the goal of DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. DVOA breaks down every single play of the NFL season, assigning each play a value based on both total yards and yards towards a first down, based on work done by Pete Palmer, Bob Carroll, and John Thorn in their seminal book, The Hidden Game of Football. On first down, a play is considered a success if it gains 45 percent of needed yards; on second down, a play needs to gain 60 percent of needed yards; on third or fourth down, only gaining a new first down is considered success.
We then expand upon that basic idea with a more complicated system of “success points,” improved over the past few years with a lot of mathematics and a bit of trial and error. A successful play is worth one point; an unsuccessful play, zero points with fractional points in between (e.g., eight yards on third-and-10 is worth 0.54 “success points”). Extra points are awarded for big plays, gradually increasing to three points for 10 yards (assuming those yards result in a first down), four points for 20 yards, and five points for 40 yards or more. Losing three or more yards is -1 point. Interceptions occurring on fourth down during the last two minutes of a game incur no penalty whatsoever, but all others average -6 points, with an adjustment for the length of the pass and the location of the interception (since an interception tipped at the line is more likely to produce a long return than an interception on a 40-yard pass). A fumble is worth anywhere from -1.7 to -4.0 points depending on how often a fumble in that situation is lost to the defense -- no matter who actually recovers the fumble. Red zone plays get a bonus: 20 percent for team offense, five percent for team defense, and 10 percent for individual players. There is a bonus given for a touchdown, which acknowledges that the goal line is significantly more difficult to cross than the previous 99 yards (although this bonus is nowhere near as large as the one used in fantasy football).
(Our system is a bit more complex than the one in Hidden Game thanks to our subsequent research, which added larger penalties for turnovers, the fractional points, and a slightly higher baseline for success on first down. The reason why all fumbles are counted, no matter whether they are recovered by the offense or defense, is explained in FO Basics.)
Every single play run in the NFL gets a “success value” based on this system, and then that number gets compared to the average success values of plays in similar situations for all players, adjusted for a number of variables. These include down and distance, field location, time remaining in game, and the team’s lead or deficit in the game score. Teams are always compared to the overall offensive average, as the team made its own choice whether to pass or rush. When it comes to individual players, however, rushing plays are compared to other rushing plays, passing plays to other passing plays, tight ends to tight ends, wideouts to wideouts, and so on.
Going back to our example of the three-yard rush, if Player A gains three yards under a set of circumstances in which the average NFL running back gains only one yard, then Player A has a certain amount of value above others at his position. Likewise, if Player B gains three yards on a play on which, under similar circumstances, an average NFL back gains four yards, that Player B has negative value relative to others at his position. Once we make all our adjustments, we can evaluate the difference between this player’s rate of success and the expected success rate of an average running back in the same situation (or between the opposing defense and the average defense in the same situation, etc.). Add up every play by a certain team or player, divide by the total of the various baselines* for success in all those situations, and you get VOA, or Value Over Average.
The biggest variable in football is the fact that each team plays a different schedule against teams of disparate quality. By adjusting each play based on the opposing defense’s average success in stopping that type of play over the course of a season, we get DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. Rushing and passing plays are adjusted based on down and location on the field; passing plays are also adjusted based on how the defense performs against passes to running backs, tight ends, or wide receivers. Defenses are adjusted based on the average success of the offenses they are facing. (Yes, technically the defensive stats are actually “offense-adjusted.” If it seems weird, think of the “D” in “DVOA” as standing for “opponent-Dependent” or something.)
The final step in calculating DVOA involves normalizing each year's ratings. As you may know, offensive levels in the NFL have gone up and down over the years. Right now, the overall level of offense in the league is probably at its highest level of all time. Therefore, we need to ensure that DVOA in a given season isn't skewed by league environment.
For teams, DVOA is normalized so that league averages for offense and defense are 0%. (However, because pass plays are more efficient than run plays, league averages for team passing and team rushing are not zero.) For players, DVOA is normalized separately for individual passing, individual rushing, and the three individual receiving groups (wide receivers, tight ends, and running backs) so that the league average for each is 0%.
Of course, one of the hardest parts of understanding a new statistic is interpreting its scale. To use DVOA, you have to know what numbers represent good performance and what numbers represent bad performance. We’ve made that easy. In all cases, 0% represents league-average. A positive DVOA represents a situation that favors the offense, while a negative DVOA represents a situation that favors the defense. This is why the best offenses have positive DVOA ratings (last year, Green Bay led the league at +24.7%) and the best defenses have negative DVOA ratings (with Seattle number one in 2014 at -16.8%). In most years, the best and worst offenses tend to rate around ± 30%, while the best and worst defenses tend to rate around ± 25%. For starting players, the scale tends to reach roughly ± 40% for passing and receiving, and ± 30% for rushing. As you might imagine, some players with fewer attempts will surpass both extremes.
DVOA has three main advantages over more traditional ways to judge NFL performance. First, by subtracting defense DVOA from offense DVOA (and adding in special teams DVOA, which is described below), we can create a set of team rankings that's based on play-by-play efficiency rather than total yards. Because DVOA does a better job of explaining past wins and predicting future wins than total yards, it gives a more accurate picture of how much better (or worse) a team really is relative to the rest of the league.
Because it compares each play only to plays with similar circumstances, this advantage also applies vis-a-vis situational team rankings. The list of top DVOA offenses on third down, for example, is more accurate than the conventional NFL conversion statistic because it takes into account that converting third-and-long is more difficult than converting third-and-short, and that a turnover is worse than an incomplete pass because it eliminates the opportunity to move the other team back with a punt on fourth down. The same could be said about plays on fourth down or in the red zone.
Second, unlike formulas based on comparing drives rather than individual plays, DVOA can be separated into a myriad of splits (e.g., by down, by week, by distance needed for a first down, etc.). Therefore, we're able to break teams and players down to find strengths and weaknesses in a variety of situations. All Pittsburgh third downs can be compared to how an average team does on third down. Josh McCown and Mike Glennon can each be compared to how an average quarterback performs in the red zone, or with a lead, or in the second half of the game. This doesn't just give us a better idea of which team or player is better. More importantly, it helps us understand why they're better, and therefore allows us to offer prescriptions for improvement in the future.
Finally, a third advantage of DVOA is that normalization makes our comparisons of current teams and players to past teams and players (going back to 1989) more accurate than those based on traditional statistics like wins or total yards, as well as those based on more sophisticated metrics that aren't normalized (e.g., expected points added, passer rating differential, etc.). For instance, which Denver Broncos team had the better offense: the 2013 edition with Peyton Manning, or the 1998 club led by Terrell Davis? Going by total yardage (7,317 vs. 6,092) or even yards per play (6.3 vs. 5.9), it's not even a contest. The 2013 team were clearly better. However, this ignores the fact that the average NFL offense was much more pass-oriented, and thus more efficient, in 2013 than in 1998. If we take the difference in offensive environment into account by using DVOA, it turns out that the 1998 Broncos offense was slightly better relative to the rest of the league (34.5% to 33.5%).
*It should be noted that certain plays are included in DVOA for offense but not for defense. Other plays are included for both, but scored differently. This leads to separate baselines on each side of the ball. For instance
Only four total penalties are included. Two penalties count as pass plays on both sides of the ball: intentional grounding and defensive pass interference. The other two penalties are included for offense only: false starts and delay of game. Because the inclusion of these penalties means a group of negative plays that don’t count as either passes or runs, the league averages for pass offense and run offense are higher than the league averages for pass defense and run defense.
Aborted snaps and incomplete backwards lateral passes are only penalized on offense, not rewarded on defense.
Adjustments for playing from behind or with a lead in the fourth quarter are different for offense and defense, as are adjustments for the final two minutes of the first half when the offense is not near field-goal range.
Offense gets a slight penalty and defense gets a slight bonus for games indoors.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby JKB » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:10 pm

BF004 wrote:
go pak go wrote:The Packers have two huge road games in the month of November and this one is not one of them.

Yep, at the same time, best games to lose (for tie-breaking procedure's) are the non-conference games. Would much rather beat Carolina than Denver if I only get to chose one.

Agreed!
This is one of my "losses" in The initial predictions

Since then I have changed my mind...38-17. Packers! :censored:
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby YoHoChecko » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:12 pm

I continue to believe that Denver is not a very good football team and that we should beat them.

But I believe they are better than the Chargers and it still took a great deal of effort. So a win is obviously not a given. But we should get it. We're better than them.
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby GJPackerBacker » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:19 am

AR hasn't been himself. Why? I do not know. It all depends on if AR is himself. It will not be easy, as the donkeys have a solid D. I have confidence that he will get the job done, it will not be easy. I predict a close game...17-9 (half of JJ's point total prediction). Packers go 7-0.

See you there!
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby Cdragon » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:49 am

Denver sucks. They been squeaking by bad and average teams because of their D. The Vikes are the best team they've faced. Their O sucks. Payton can engineer one drive a game. He throws it up for grabs. He is missing reads. Has a QB rating of 72. His QBR is 45. 7 TDs and 10 INTs. He looks like he is 90. Time to bury them.

Packers 44 Broncos 7
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby raptorman » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:02 am

Cdragon wrote:Denver sucks. They been squeaking by bad and average teams because of their D. The Vikes are the best team they've faced. Their O sucks. Payton can engineer one drive a game. He throws it up for grabs. He is missing reads. Has a QB rating of 72. His QBR is 45. 7 TDs and 10 INTs. He looks like he is 90. Time to bury them.

Packers 44 Broncos 7

44! Seriously? 21-24 points wins this game. 44 points maybe between the two teams. Last time the Packers scored 44 points on the road was against a 32 ranked team in ppg given up.
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby backthepack4ever » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:21 am

raptorman wrote:
Cdragon wrote:Denver sucks. They been squeaking by bad and average teams because of their D. The Vikes are the best team they've faced. Their O sucks. Payton can engineer one drive a game. He throws it up for grabs. He is missing reads. Has a QB rating of 72. His QBR is 45. 7 TDs and 10 INTs. He looks like he is 90. Time to bury them.

Packers 44 Broncos 7

44! Seriously? 21-24 points wins this game. 44 points maybe between the two teams. Last time the Packers scored 44 points on the road was against a 32 ranked team in ppg given up.


Didn't we stomp a feared Houston team on the road when nobody gave us hope. Not saying it will happen but I feel we score a lot. Close to 40 I like that tune!!!
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby Cdragon » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:05 am

backthepack4ever wrote:
raptorman wrote:
Cdragon wrote:Denver sucks. They been squeaking by bad and average teams because of their D. The Vikes are the best team they've faced. Their O sucks. Payton can engineer one drive a game. He throws it up for grabs. He is missing reads. Has a QB rating of 72. His QBR is 45. 7 TDs and 10 INTs. He looks like he is 90. Time to bury them.

Packers 44 Broncos 7

44! Seriously? 21-24 points wins this game. 44 points maybe between the two teams. Last time the Packers scored 44 points on the road was against a 32 ranked team in ppg given up.


Didn't we stomp a feared Houston team on the road when nobody gave us hope. Not saying it will happen but I feel we score a lot. Close to 40 I like that tune!!!


Why not. I'm expect more than a couple Manning turnovers in their territory. Getting Raji, Adams, Monty, and maybe Burnett back. Lacy should be ready to go. Another week for Bulaga to heal up. If we come in beat up we'd still beat them. We should be coming in a lot closer to 100%. Time to romp.
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby Pugger » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:19 am

raptorman wrote:
Cdragon wrote:Denver sucks. They been squeaking by bad and average teams because of their D. The Vikes are the best team they've faced. Their O sucks. Payton can engineer one drive a game. He throws it up for grabs. He is missing reads. Has a QB rating of 72. His QBR is 45. 7 TDs and 10 INTs. He looks like he is 90. Time to bury them.

Packers 44 Broncos 7

44! Seriously? 21-24 points wins this game. 44 points maybe between the two teams. Last time the Packers scored 44 points on the road was against a 32 ranked team in ppg given up.


No kidding, 44 is very optimistic. You're probably right, 44 will be the total between both teams. I think it will be a close game and I do hope Rodgers returns to form and the Pack wins.
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby raptorman » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:40 am

Cdragon wrote:
Why not. I'm expect more than a couple Manning turnovers in their territory. Getting Raji, Adams, Monty, and maybe Burnett back. Lacy should be ready to go. Another week for Bulaga to heal up. If we come in beat up we'd still beat them. We should be coming in a lot closer to 100%. Time to romp.

OK. But I would be very surprised. Since the start of season in 2012 the Bronco's have lost 2 games at home. The average score for the visiting team is 19.6 points per game. And the Packers are going to double that? Good luck.
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Re: Broncos Week Thread

Postby bud fox » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:44 am

As pointed out Denver's off is horrendus but there def is legit.
However our boy Arod is the most legit.
Packers win, Manning 3 turnovers.
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