Ouch

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Re: Ouch

Postby Pugger » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:06 pm

yoop wrote:http://www.newsweek.com/robert-reich-lickspittles-who-serve-trump-not-america-627009


this should concern all Americans, not just the Left

Last Monday, the White House invited reporters in to watch what was billed as a meeting of Trump’s Cabinet. After Trump spoke, he asked each of the Cabinet members around the table to briefly comment.

Their statements were what you might expect from toadies surrounding a two-bit dictator.

“We thank you for the opportunity and blessing to serve your agenda,” said Chief of Staff Reince Priebus. “Greatest privilege of my life, to serve as vice president to a president who’s keeping his word to the American people,” said Vice President Mike Pence. “You’ve set the exact right message,” said Attorney General Jeff Sessions, adding, “The response is fabulous around the country.”

When I was sworn in as Bill Clinton’s Secretary of Labor, I took an oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” I didn’t pledge loyalty to Bill Clinton, and I wouldn’t have participated in such a fawning display.

That oath is a pledge of loyalty to our system of government – not to a powerful individual. It puts integrity before personal loyalty. It’s what it means to have a government of laws.

But Trump has filled his administration with people more loyal to him than they are to America.

His top advisers are his daughter, Ivanka, and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner.
RELATED: Robert Reich : Why Is Trump Doing Putin's Dirty Work?

To run his legal defense and be his spokesman on the investigation into collusion with Russian operatives, Trump has hired Marc Kasowitz.

Kasowitz is not an expert in criminal or constitutional law. His only apparent qualification is his utter loyal to Trump.

He’s been Trump’s personal legal fixer for almost two decades – representing him in his failed libel lawsuit against a journalist, the Trump University fraud case that ended in January with a $25 million settlement from Trump, and candidate Trump’s response to allegations of sexual assault by multiple women last year.

Kasowitz called the New York Times article containing interviews with the women “per se libel” and demanded “a full and immediate retraction and apology” (which the Times refused).

Kasowitz has said he played a central role in the firing of Preet Bharara. Kasowitz told Trump, “This guy is going to get you,” according to a person familiar with Kasowitz’s account.

Now, Kasowitz is taking on a public role. Bypassing the White House Counsel, he instructed White House aides to discuss the investigation as little as possible, and advised them about whether they should hire private lawyers.

The horrifying reality is that in Trumpworld, there is no real “public” role. It’s all about protecting and benefiting Trump.

When loyalty trumps integrity, we no longer have a government of laws. We have a government by and for Trump


Are you suggesting Trump is the first president to fill his cabinet with people who are loyal to him? Oh the horror! :roll:

Every past president has surrounded himself with people he could trust and help him govern. Complaining about this is rather disingenuous of Trump's detractors such as yourself.
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Re: Ouch

Postby Charon21 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:42 pm

I'll agree with ya on that, Pug. That, IMO, is the effect of a two-party dictatorship -- party over country, so say both parties.

'Only thing that makes Trump different from any career politician is that he has no subtlety, so everything that's wrong with politics gets broadcast in an obnoxiously loud way. I hope we learn a thing or two from this... misadventure.
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Re: Ouch

Postby raptorman » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:43 pm

Pugger wrote:
Are you suggesting Trump is the first president to fill his cabinet with people who are loyal to him? Oh the horror! :roll:

Every past president has surrounded himself with people he could trust and help him govern. Complaining about this is rather disingenuous of Trump's detractors such as yourself.


Well, he could have filled it from a list of people that Citibank provided. After all, that's what Obama did.
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Re: Ouch

Postby Waldo » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:02 pm

raptorman wrote:
Pugger wrote:
Are you suggesting Trump is the first president to fill his cabinet with people who are loyal to him? Oh the horror! :roll:

Every past president has surrounded himself with people he could trust and help him govern. Complaining about this is rather disingenuous of Trump's detractors such as yourself.


Well, he could have filled it from a list of people that Citibank provided. After all, that's what Obama did.


Trump got his list from Goldman Sachs; despite making Hillary's paid speech there a huge campaign deal. Bannon, Mnuchin, Cohn, Donovan, Powell all gave lots of paid speeches at Goldman Sachs; they worked as partners/executives there. And Clayton was one of their lawyers while his wife works there. :roll:
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Re: Ouch

Postby Waldo » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:26 pm

Waldo wrote:Robert Mueller - Ex FBI Chief
James Quarles - Asst Watergate prosecutor
Andress Weissman - The best Fraud/Bribery/Mafia prosecutor there is
Jeannie Rhee - Prosecutor specializing in executive power and Natsec
Aaron Zelby - Prosecutor specializing in Natsec and terrorism, ex special agent
Michael Dreeben - Top criminal law expert w/ big obstruction experience and a ton of Supreme Court experience.
Lisa Page - Trial attorney specializing in money laundering and eastern European organized crime.


Muellers team continues to grow:

Elizabeth Prelogar - Asst solicitor general, supreme court experience, fluent in Russian

According to a Politico report Friday, Mueller’s team now includes 13 lawyers, with “several more in the pipeline.”


Looks like they are shuttin this thing down, there's just no evidence of this libtarb conspiracy fantasy.
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Re: Ouch

Postby texas » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:36 pm

Waldo wrote:
raptorman wrote:
Pugger wrote:
Are you suggesting Trump is the first president to fill his cabinet with people who are loyal to him? Oh the horror! :roll:

Every past president has surrounded himself with people he could trust and help him govern. Complaining about this is rather disingenuous of Trump's detractors such as yourself.


Well, he could have filled it from a list of people that Citibank provided. After all, that's what Obama did.


Trump got his list from Goldman Sachs; despite making Hillary's paid speech there a huge campaign deal. Bannon, Mnuchin, Cohn, Donovan, Powell all gave lots of paid speeches at Goldman Sachs; they worked as partners/executives there. And Clayton was one of their lawyers while his wife works there. :roll:


Yeah this has been one of my big complaints of Trump so far. He's done some swamp draining, but has come short in a lot of areas too.
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Re: Ouch

Postby GreenDay » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:48 pm

What did you expect, really? Trump is on the Pay side of the Pay for Play scam. He's a NY liberal, even if more conservative than the loony Left. He hired who he knows. Of course too many of these guys are in bed together. At least there's some shakeup of the DC roaches.
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Re: Ouch

Postby APB » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:22 pm

Waldo wrote:
Waldo wrote:Robert Mueller - Ex FBI Chief
James Quarles - Asst Watergate prosecutor
Andress Weissman - The best Fraud/Bribery/Mafia prosecutor there is
Jeannie Rhee - Prosecutor specializing in executive power and Natsec
Aaron Zelby - Prosecutor specializing in Natsec and terrorism, ex special agent
Michael Dreeben - Top criminal law expert w/ big obstruction experience and a ton of Supreme Court experience.
Lisa Page - Trial attorney specializing in money laundering and eastern European organized crime.


Muellers team continues to grow:

Elizabeth Prelogar - Asst solicitor general, supreme court experience, fluent in Russian

According to a Politico report Friday, Mueller’s team now includes 13 lawyers, with “several more in the pipeline.”


Looks like they are shuttin this thing down, there's just no evidence of this libtarb conspiracy fantasy.

At this point I have no doubt Mueller's team is going to find some dirt on Trump. What I do doubt is whether it will have anything to do with collusion or the Russian govt's interference during the election.

As an international businessman, I'm convinced Trump has been involved in some unsavory dealings, be it with the Russians or any number of other govts - as it is a part of today's global business environment, unfortunately. I'm sure something will turn up as part of Mueller's "tangential" investigation. When they find it, Mueller's liberal investigative team will exploit it. Doesn't matter that it happens all the time with foreign govts and American businesses because, this time, it will have been Trump so we'll see howling from the left for his ouster.

And they'll likely get it. There are too many on both sides of the aisle that would like to see him gone. Trump represents a threat to the career politicians no matter what color their allegiance.

Trump was right - it's become a witch hunt. They're gonna find something and, when they do, it'll get even uglier.

...although when it's all said and done Hillary still will not be president, which is pretty much all I ever cared about to begin with. :AOK
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Re: Ouch

Postby texas » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:01 am

APB wrote:
Waldo wrote:
Waldo wrote:Robert Mueller - Ex FBI Chief
James Quarles - Asst Watergate prosecutor
Andress Weissman - The best Fraud/Bribery/Mafia prosecutor there is
Jeannie Rhee - Prosecutor specializing in executive power and Natsec
Aaron Zelby - Prosecutor specializing in Natsec and terrorism, ex special agent
Michael Dreeben - Top criminal law expert w/ big obstruction experience and a ton of Supreme Court experience.
Lisa Page - Trial attorney specializing in money laundering and eastern European organized crime.


Muellers team continues to grow:

Elizabeth Prelogar - Asst solicitor general, supreme court experience, fluent in Russian

According to a Politico report Friday, Mueller’s team now includes 13 lawyers, with “several more in the pipeline.”


Looks like they are shuttin this thing down, there's just no evidence of this libtarb conspiracy fantasy.

At this point I have no doubt Mueller's team is going to find some dirt on Trump. What I do doubt is whether it will have anything to do with collusion or the Russian govt's interference during the election.

As an international businessman, I'm convinced Trump has been involved in some unsavory dealings, be it with the Russians or any number of other govts - as it is a part of today's global business environment, unfortunately. I'm sure something will turn up as part of Mueller's "tangential" investigation. When they find it, Mueller's liberal investigative team will exploit it. Doesn't matter that it happens all the time with foreign govts and American businesses because, this time, it will have been Trump so we'll see howling from the left for his ouster.

And they'll likely get it. There are too many on both sides of the aisle that would like to see him gone. Trump represents a threat to the career politicians no matter what color their allegiance.

Trump was right - it's become a witch hunt. They're gonna find something and, when they do, it'll get even uglier.

...although when it's all said and done Hillary still will not be president, which is pretty much all I ever cared about to begin with. :AOK



Which is why you never cede an inch to your enemies. They don't care about standards or justice- they only want to bring you down and they'll use any excuse to do it. Too many spineless politicians in the swamp, Democrat and Republican. Trump should have never trusted any of them to serve on his staff at any level, that's the main problem. Should have fired everyone from every department day 1 (except like DoD, CIA, FBI- we've got to have a national defense, whether it's temporarily deep state or not).

Lots of worms coming out of the DOJ in particular, which isn't surprising because that rat #$%! Holder reigned for so long. #$%! that guy, I always said he was way worse than Obama.
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Re: Ouch

Postby Pugger » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:05 pm

texas wrote:
APB wrote:
Waldo wrote:
Waldo wrote:Robert Mueller - Ex FBI Chief
James Quarles - Asst Watergate prosecutor
Andress Weissman - The best Fraud/Bribery/Mafia prosecutor there is
Jeannie Rhee - Prosecutor specializing in executive power and Natsec
Aaron Zelby - Prosecutor specializing in Natsec and terrorism, ex special agent
Michael Dreeben - Top criminal law expert w/ big obstruction experience and a ton of Supreme Court experience.
Lisa Page - Trial attorney specializing in money laundering and eastern European organized crime.


Muellers team continues to grow:

Elizabeth Prelogar - Asst solicitor general, supreme court experience, fluent in Russian

According to a Politico report Friday, Mueller’s team now includes 13 lawyers, with “several more in the pipeline.”


Looks like they are shuttin this thing down, there's just no evidence of this libtarb conspiracy fantasy.

At this point I have no doubt Mueller's team is going to find some dirt on Trump. What I do doubt is whether it will have anything to do with collusion or the Russian govt's interference during the election.

As an international businessman, I'm convinced Trump has been involved in some unsavory dealings, be it with the Russians or any number of other govts - as it is a part of today's global business environment, unfortunately. I'm sure something will turn up as part of Mueller's "tangential" investigation. When they find it, Mueller's liberal investigative team will exploit it. Doesn't matter that it happens all the time with foreign govts and American businesses because, this time, it will have been Trump so we'll see howling from the left for his ouster.

And they'll likely get it. There are too many on both sides of the aisle that would like to see him gone. Trump represents a threat to the career politicians no matter what color their allegiance.

Trump was right - it's become a witch hunt. They're gonna find something and, when they do, it'll get even uglier.

...although when it's all said and done Hillary still will not be president, which is pretty much all I ever cared about to begin with. :AOK



Which is why you never cede an inch to your enemies. They don't care about standards or justice- they only want to bring you down and they'll use any excuse to do it. Too many spineless politicians in the swamp, Democrat and Republican. Trump should have never trusted any of them to serve on his staff at any level, that's the main problem. Should have fired everyone from every department day 1 (except like DoD, CIA, FBI- we've got to have a national defense, whether it's temporarily deep state or not).

Lots of worms coming out of the DOJ in particular, which isn't surprising because that rat #$%! Holder reigned for so long. #$%! that guy, I always said he was way worse than Obama.


I understand he is mulling over running for POTUS in 2020. Heaven forbid!
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Re: Ouch

Postby Charon21 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:21 pm

APB wrote:As an international businessman, I'm convinced Trump has been involved in some unsavory dealings, be it with the Russians or any number of other govts - as it is a part of today's global business environment, unfortunately. I'm sure something will turn up as part of Mueller's "tangential" investigation. When they find it, Mueller's liberal investigative team will exploit it. Doesn't matter that it happens all the time with foreign govts and American businesses because, this time, it will have been Trump so we'll see howling from the left for his ouster.

And they'll likely get it. There are too many on both sides of the aisle that would like to see him gone. Trump represents a threat to the career politicians no matter what color their allegiance.

Trump was right - it's become a witch hunt. They're gonna find something and, when they do, it'll get even uglier.


Well if only there were a way we could have determined this before the election and avoided the headache...

... Oh wait, that's right: tax-returns. The last GOP candidate for president before Trump had international business dealings, too, but mostly dispelled the idea that he may had worrisome ties to other nations by releasing his. Do you remember anyone accusing Romney of being in cahoots with another country?

Don can whine about "witch hunts" all he wants, but he accepted that risk by running for office while not coming clean on his business dealings. Be an adult and own it, or don't run at all. The guy is just butthurt that he is not allowed to hide his shadiness and ineptitude in politics like he could in his private business career.

You might even call him... SAD! :twisted:
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Re: Ouch

Postby dirty sanchez » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:12 pm

Charon21 wrote:
APB wrote:As an international businessman, I'm convinced Trump has been involved in some unsavory dealings, be it with the Russians or any number of other govts - as it is a part of today's global business environment, unfortunately. I'm sure something will turn up as part of Mueller's "tangential" investigation. When they find it, Mueller's liberal investigative team will exploit it. Doesn't matter that it happens all the time with foreign govts and American businesses because, this time, it will have been Trump so we'll see howling from the left for his ouster.

And they'll likely get it. There are too many on both sides of the aisle that would like to see him gone. Trump represents a threat to the career politicians no matter what color their allegiance.

Trump was right - it's become a witch hunt. They're gonna find something and, when they do, it'll get even uglier.


Well if only there were a way we could have determined this before the election and avoided the headache...

... Oh wait, that's right: tax-returns. The last GOP candidate for president before Trump had international business dealings, too, but mostly dispelled the idea that he may had worrisome ties to other nations by releasing his. Do you remember anyone accusing Romney of being in cahoots with another country?

Don can whine about "witch hunts" all he wants, but he accepted that risk by running for office while not coming clean on his business dealings. Be an adult and own it, or don't run at all. The guy is just butthurt that he is not allowed to hide his shadiness and ineptitude in politics like he could in his private business career.

You might even call him... SAD! :twisted:
Actually, he should be allowed to hide his dirty laundry just like Obama and everyone else before him were allowed to. Kind of a double standard to single him out which is what the political establishment and the MSM have been doing the second he took office.
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Re: Ouch

Postby texas » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:04 am

Charon21 wrote:
APB wrote:As an international businessman, I'm convinced Trump has been involved in some unsavory dealings, be it with the Russians or any number of other govts - as it is a part of today's global business environment, unfortunately. I'm sure something will turn up as part of Mueller's "tangential" investigation. When they find it, Mueller's liberal investigative team will exploit it. Doesn't matter that it happens all the time with foreign govts and American businesses because, this time, it will have been Trump so we'll see howling from the left for his ouster.

And they'll likely get it. There are too many on both sides of the aisle that would like to see him gone. Trump represents a threat to the career politicians no matter what color their allegiance.

Trump was right - it's become a witch hunt. They're gonna find something and, when they do, it'll get even uglier.


Well if only there were a way we could have determined this before the election and avoided the headache...

... Oh wait, that's right: tax-returns. The last GOP candidate for president before Trump had international business dealings, too, but mostly dispelled the idea that he may had worrisome ties to other nations by releasing his. Do you remember anyone accusing Romney of being in cahoots with another country?

Don can whine about "witch hunts" all he wants, but he accepted that risk by running for office while not coming clean on his business dealings. Be an adult and own it, or don't run at all. The guy is just butthurt that he is not allowed to hide his shadiness and ineptitude in politics like he could in his private business career.

You might even call him... SAD! :twisted:



I think this assumes the frame that this issue is somehow singularly disqualifying and promotive of, conveniently, a Democrat. Don't think of it like that.

Instead, think of it like:

Do we like the fact that he did not release his tax returns? In a vacuum, no; ideally we'd get as much info as possible.

But does that then mean we'd rather have Hillary? Hell no. Trump has to do a lot more to justify us wanting someone else in there.

This reasoning can be applied to (almost) anything the left has thrown at him. Let's say he did the worst accusation- colluded with Russia and personally asked them to help beat Hillary. If that were true, would that fact then mean that the policies advanced by the left are somehow instantly desirable and we should have all voted Jeb! instead?

He was caught on tape saying he likes to grab women by the #$%!, for crying out loud. Just about zero right wingers support that (but at least one lefty does-Bill Clinton). But that doesn't cause us to do an immediate about-face and start supporting open borders, large bureaucracy, and communism.

The left acts like that's the case: "well since he didn't release his tax returns, that means we need universal amnesty". The neocons say: "he is unpresidential and a pig, so therefore I guess we need to spend $5 trillion on a ground war in Syria". These conclusions are not supported by the premises at all.
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Re: Ouch

Postby APB » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:24 am

Charon21 wrote:
APB wrote:As an international businessman, I'm convinced Trump has been involved in some unsavory dealings, be it with the Russians or any number of other govts - as it is a part of today's global business environment, unfortunately. I'm sure something will turn up as part of Mueller's "tangential" investigation. When they find it, Mueller's liberal investigative team will exploit it. Doesn't matter that it happens all the time with foreign govts and American businesses because, this time, it will have been Trump so we'll see howling from the left for his ouster.

And they'll likely get it. There are too many on both sides of the aisle that would like to see him gone. Trump represents a threat to the career politicians no matter what color their allegiance.

Trump was right - it's become a witch hunt. They're gonna find something and, when they do, it'll get even uglier.


Well if only there were a way we could have determined this before the election and avoided the headache...

... Oh wait, that's right: tax-returns. The last GOP candidate for president before Trump had international business dealings, too, but mostly dispelled the idea that he may had worrisome ties to other nations by releasing his. Do you remember anyone accusing Romney of being in cahoots with another country?

Don can whine about "witch hunts" all he wants, but he accepted that risk by running for office while not coming clean on his business dealings. Be an adult and own it, or don't run at all. The guy is just butthurt that he is not allowed to hide his shadiness and ineptitude in politics like he could in his private business career.

You might even call him... SAD! :twisted:

What a load of crap.

The cry for Trump to release his tax returns was nothing more than a political ploy to exploit Trump's wealth and supposed lack of tax payments. There was little chance of anyone deducing any sort of underhanded foreign govt deal by simply reviewing his tax return - Trump and his lawyers aren't complete idiots - unless, of course, you're suggesting a special counsel with subpoena powers would have been assigned by Obama during the campaign.

...which, of course, in in light of recent Obama administration activitities is completely possible.

Besides, isn't the IRS an investigative arm of the left anyway? Don't they review tax returns of the uber rich - especially those on the right - to ensure compliance with proper wealth distribution quotas?

But anyway, you're trying to tie Trump's refusal to give into the political lynch mob as justification for the lefts continuous hunt for an excuse of illegitimacy. That's nonsense. Nice try, tho.
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Re: Ouch

Postby yoop » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:47 am

APB wrote:
Charon21 wrote:
APB wrote:As an international businessman, I'm convinced Trump has been involved in some unsavory dealings, be it with the Russians or any number of other govts - as it is a part of today's global business environment, unfortunately. I'm sure something will turn up as part of Mueller's "tangential" investigation. When they find it, Mueller's liberal investigative team will exploit it. Doesn't matter that it happens all the time with foreign govts and American businesses because, this time, it will have been Trump so we'll see howling from the left for his ouster.

And they'll likely get it. There are too many on both sides of the aisle that would like to see him gone. Trump represents a threat to the career politicians no matter what color their allegiance.

Trump was right - it's become a witch hunt. They're gonna find something and, when they do, it'll get even uglier.


Well if only there were a way we could have determined this before the election and avoided the headache...

... Oh wait, that's right: tax-returns. The last GOP candidate for president before Trump had international business dealings, too, but mostly dispelled the idea that he may had worrisome ties to other nations by releasing his. Do you remember anyone accusing Romney of being in cahoots with another country?

Don can whine about "witch hunts" all he wants, but he accepted that risk by running for office while not coming clean on his business dealings. Be an adult and own it, or don't run at all. The guy is just butthurt that he is not allowed to hide his shadiness and ineptitude in politics like he could in his private business career.

You might even call him... SAD! :twisted:

What a load of crap.

The cry for Trump to release his tax returns was nothing more than a political ploy to exploit Trump's wealth and supposed lack of tax payments. There was little chance of anyone deducing any sort of underhanded foreign govt deal by simply reviewing his tax return - Trump and his lawyers aren't complete idiots - unless, of course, you're suggesting a special counsel with subpoena powers would have been assigned by Obama during the campaign.

...which, of course, in in light of recent Obama administration activitities is completely possible.

Besides, isn't the IRS an investigative arm of the left anyway? Don't they review tax returns of the uber rich - especially those on the right - to ensure compliance with proper wealth distribution quotas?

But anyway, you're trying to tie Trump's refusal to give into the political lynch mob as justification for the lefts continuous hunt for an excuse of illegitimacy. That's nonsense. Nice try, tho.


seriously now, do you think someone that runs for public office, specially the presidency should be allowed to do under the table financial affairs with a foreign power, specially a world power like Russia? Trump should have never made it through the primary's.
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