Incompetent Republicans

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Re: Incompetent Republicans

Postby wallyuwl » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:25 pm

yoop wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:Yoop, you are retired and IIRC have mentioned before you are on a fixed income. Let's say your "take home" pay is $2000 per month. Would you be OK with that getting cut to $1200 or less? Because that is the level of taxation required for single payer, where everyone gets healthcare coverage. Crappy coverage. A system that stifles innovation. But everyone gets coverage.

I'm not picking on you yoop, the same question applies to Charon and others who think single payer is so righteous.


I've only seen one model that estimates everyone would pay 40% of there income, even poverty level income people, the few others I've seen are based on a escallating % depending on income, since 2K is at poverty level I doubt I'd pay as much as I do now (420.00).

the average under OB up till 6 months ago was 800.00, the average under Sanders single payer plan was 700.00, other articles I've read stated single payer would be cheaper then any plan we've had in the last 20 years, as I said before, I retired in 2005, my insurance was 1000.00 a month, thats 12 years ago, I'am sure it's went up since then.

didn't actually say I was for single payer, just that it seems the only way to provide healthcare for everyone, and why does it automatically become crappy coverage, or have to lack innovation?

this idea that people wont go to school to be doctors if we lock them into a pay scale can be fixed by paying for the schooling they can work off after they graduate, which is basically how it works now, graduates have placements waiting for them.

right now we are slaves to the healthcare system, it should be the other way around, we've allowed healthcare to become the highest profit making business in the country, and they can raise there prices any time they want, there really is no competition to lower prices, it's always been a near zero control Industry imho.

maybe some sort of hybrid universal plan is the answer.


I know people who are from countries with socialized medicine, and I think your estimates of $700ish are low. The 40% is about right, IMO, but for single payer to work (talking financials only), everyone has to contribute that. In the USA the costs would be higher than other countries because we have a much larger population than any other country who implements such a system. The working poor would be pushed drastically further into poverty. The taxes for them would be way more money out of pocket than they pay now with Medicaid or the exchanges (where there are still providers) with subsidies. The middle class would get crushed from taxes, too. Housing prices would plummet, and we know how that worked out last time.

Innovation would be greatly reduced because companies would not have the profit motive. The two things that drive innovation: war and profit. With single payer, the govt. would set the prices just as they do with Medicare and Medicaid. That means the profit gets cut out for pharma and device companies, which means less engineers and chemists employed working on new products, which means less innovation. I don't think there would be a shortage of people trying to de doctors because there are already hundreds and hundreds of applicants for every medical school every year. We need more medical schools, not fewer applicants. But the quality of the graduates would decrease because of less competition, as some of the brightest would go into other fields that aren't price controlled by the govt.

As for crappy care, it again comes down to money. Look at the article I linked above. Socialized medicine doesn't pay for expensive treatments. It is that simple.
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Re: Incompetent Republicans

Postby raptorman » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:25 am

yoop wrote:I've only seen one model that estimates everyone would pay 40% of there income, even poverty level income people, the few others I've seen are based on a escallating % depending on income, since 2K is at poverty level I doubt I'd pay as much as I do now (420.00).

the average under OB up till 6 months ago was 800.00, the average under Sanders single payer plan was 700.00, other articles I've read stated single payer would be cheaper then any plan we've had in the last 20 years, as I said before, I retired in 2005, my insurance was 1000.00 a month, thats 12 years ago, I'am sure it's went up since then.

didn't actually say I was for single payer, just that it seems the only way to provide healthcare for everyone, and why does it automatically become crappy coverage, or have to lack innovation?

this idea that people wont go to school to be doctors if we lock them into a pay scale can be fixed by paying for the schooling they can work off after they graduate, which is basically how it works now, graduates have placements waiting for them.

right now we are slaves to the healthcare system, it should be the other way around, we've allowed healthcare to become the highest profit making business in the country, and they can raise there prices any time they want, there really is no competition to lower prices, it's always been a near zero control Industry imho.

maybe some sort of hybrid universal plan is the answer.


Highest profit making business in the country. Really? I hate to say it but you don't know squat about healthcare companies profits.
Current profit margins of healthcare companies.
Code: Select all
UHC  3.8%
Aetna 3.59%
Anthem 2.9%
Cigna 4.1
Humana 1.13%
Centene 1.38%


Now lets look at some non healthcare stock profit margin.

Code: Select all
Microsoft 23.72%
ATT 7.9%
Disney 19.96%
Verizon 10.42%
3M 16.77%


Yeah, the healthcare companies are making more money than anyone else. And actually, they can't raise their rates anytime they want. Most states have laws that require any rate hikes to be approved by the state before they can be implemented. The Health insurance market is one of the most highly regulated markets in the country. But what the hell do I know, I have only been selling insurance for 27 years. I'm sure CNN has some college professor to say otherwise.
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Re: Incompetent Republicans

Postby texas » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:27 am

You know who's actually greedy?

The Big Tech companies who have 30ish% profit margins and fire all their American workers so they can outsource to India.

They dangle H1B visas at immigrants, then expect them to work for 1/2 price and work double hours, and if they don't, well, they have to go back to Pakistan! It's evil.

They dangle temporary citizenship in front of these people, force them to work like a dog in order to keep it, keep Americans who pay their salary unemployed, all while lecturing the rest of us about how bad we are or how greedy we are.

That's who should be the recipient of scorn.
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