Obamacare

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Obamacare

Postby Lord Ben » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:19 pm

My parents lost their health insurance. They got a letter this week that their policy is cancelled.

New one (if the site even lets them sign up and submit eventually) is about 250-300% of the cost of their old plan if the estimate calculator on healthcare.gov is accurate. They're forced into buying a plan that covers WAY more than they want covered.

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Re: Obamacare

Postby BF004 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:24 pm

Anyone who thought you could increase coverage on a policy, cover everyone with pre-existing conditions, raise taxes on several aspects (such as medical equipment developers), force lower deductibles and OOPM's (Out of pocket max) and have the price of insurance go down, I have two penny's I'd like to sell you for a nickel.

For what its worth, qualified actuarial firms and insurance companies have been putting out estimates of gigantic increases since 2010, which have either been ignored or discredited by politicians as insurance firms with an agenda.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/healthy-l ... -soar.aspx
Now health law supporters are pushing back, noting close ties between the actuaries making the forecasts and an insurance industry that has been complaining about taxes and other factors it says will lead to rate shock for consumers.

"Most actuaries in this country -- what percentage are employed by insurance companies?" Sen. Al Franken, a Minnesota Democrat, asked an actuary last week at a hearing of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions.

The committee was discussing a study published last month by the Society of Actuaries (SOA) predicting that, thanks to sicker patients joining the coverage pool, medical claims per member will rise 32 percent in the individual plans expected to dominate the ACA exchanges next year. In some states costs will rise as much as 80 percent, the report said.

The witness was unable to answer Franken's question, but the senator made his point. Insurance is why actuaries exist. The industry and the profession are hard to separate.

Using predictive math, actuaries try to make sure insurers of all kinds don’t run out of money to pay claims. Many actuaries also work for consultants whose clients include insurance companies.

The SOA "portray themselves as this nonpartisan think tank when in fact everything about the study is by people who have a vested interest in the outcome of the study," said Birny Birnbaum, executive director of the Center for Economic Justice, a Texas group that advocates on behalf of financial and utility consumers.

To perform the research, the society hired Optum, sister company of UnitedHealthcare, the country’s biggest private health insurer.

Society spokeswoman Kim McKeown said the project was overseen by credentialed actuaries "from a cross-section of industry organizations" and was "exposed for review and comment to the broad health care actuarial community."

"I have a great deal of respect for actuaries," said Timothy Jost, a law professor at Washington and Lee University and health law expert. "But I do think they often end up in … situations where the interests of the public and of their employers might be in conflict."


I am an actuary with United Healthcare, and I can assure you a lot of brass leading these studies are bleeding heart liberals from knowing a few of them personally and had no interest other than being as accurate as possible on studies like these.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby flapackfan » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:38 pm

I understand Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson is going to introduce a bill titled, " If you like your plan you can keep it". O's favorite campaign promise as he was pulling the wool over the eyes of all the "low" educated voters. The bill which has no chance of advancing into law with O holding the hammer, will at least get the supporters on the record defending the ACA, and arguing why keeping what you like won't work and how it was never designed to work.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen prove that they are insured, but doesn't require every person to prove they are a citizen. Many who can't prove they are citizens will receive free insurance from those that are citizens.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby Boyd Dowler » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:14 am

We were cancelled, too. I think it was automatic for everybody in our category. We can reapply on one of their government approved plans at a cost starting at least 50% more.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby BF004 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:08 pm

Boyd Dowler wrote:We were cancelled, too. I think it was automatic for everybody in our category. We can reapply on one of their government approved plans at a cost starting at least 50% more.


If you donate to one of those African food programs, a lot of times they'll send you a picture of a kid you helped.

Perhaps with this, they should send you a picture of a person your premiums are subsidizing.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby BF004 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:39 pm

Obama lied, period.

Or he could claim he didn't know, like the IRS, Fast and Furius, NSA spying, Benghazi and every other problem that his media have ignored.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby Lord Ben » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:51 pm

BF004 wrote:Obama lied, period.

Or he could claim he didn't know, like the IRS, Fast and Furius, NSA spying, Benghazi and every other problem that his media have ignored.


You expect the President to be informed!? :)
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Re: Obamacare

Postby wallyuwl » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:20 am

My wife and I both have very good health insurance, even though we rarely use it (especially me). Her out of pocket premiums increased 300% last year, and another 50% this year on top of the new figure. We are the type of people that get screwed (young and healthy) the most. Thanks Obamacare.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby BF004 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:33 pm

Lord Ben wrote:My parents lost their health insurance. They got a letter this week that their policy is cancelled.

New one (if the site even lets them sign up and submit eventually) is about 250-300% of the cost of their old plan if the estimate calculator on healthcare.gov is accurate. They're forced into buying a plan that covers WAY more than they want covered.


Clearly they should be thanking O.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... nce-plans/

"That's what I said when I was running for office. That was part of the promise we made," Obama said. "But ever since the law was passed, if insurers decided to downgrade or cancel these substandard plans, what we said under the law is, you've got to replace them with quality, comprehensive coverage because that too was a central premise of the Affordable Care Act from the very beginning."


Clearly they didn't have quality, comprehensive coverage. Thankfully the government was able to step in there and force them to have the quality, comprehensive coverage they deserve, no matter the cost. I also love how he just states that if the bad apple insurance companies downgrade your plan. The same is true if they upgrade your plan, which is the case to conform to the new essential health benefits that are mandated to be covered. Any change whatsoever, not just downgrading or upgrading, any change.

And being right in the middle of this. You can keep your plan if you like it AND it meets the new regulations. If your plan is not Obamacare compliant, we can't renew it. Your old plans can not be tweeked in anyway to make them compliant and maintain grandfathered status. Unless of course you get your health care coverage through a collectively bargained assosication (Obama's biggest supporters and donors), then you can change your plan and maintain grandfathered status. :roll:

http://www.shrm.org/hrdisciplines/benef ... Plans.aspx
Unlike the normal grandfathering rules that apply to other group health plans, changing the insurance issuer during the period of a collective bargaining agreement will not cause an insured union-negotiated health plan to lose its grandfathered status.


This law actually has a lot of good pieces, but as usual, politics prevailed and everyone tried tweeking just a piece or two to suit the needs of their friends/donors/constituents and now the whole damn things is unfair for the common middle class person. Obama has granted 1,231 one year exemptions for his friends (unions) among others as they claimed it wasn't affordable, his friends subsidize less, you pay more. How is it fair that only companies and organizations with already enough money to have a lobbying presense are the only ones who are able to get exemptions, but the smaller companies that could actually use the break can not? They have to do business next year paying through the nose while their competitor across the street has friends in Washington, so they don't have to pay.

There is also a general correlation between income and quality of health insurance. These substandard plans as he refers to them are generally for lower income to middle class families and small business owners. These are the people who will be more likely to get a cancellation notice in the mail and see 50-300% increases in their premiums.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby Lord Ben » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:24 pm

Old and Busted: If you like your plan you can keep it.
New Hotness: If Obama likes your plan he'll let you keep it.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby Boyd Dowler » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:23 pm

Lord Ben wrote:Old and Busted: If you like your plan you can keep it.
New Hotness: If Obama likes your plan he'll let you keep it.


Shouldn't we all have the same health care plan/benefits our elected representatives, unelected government employees paid for by our tax dollars, and their favored corporate and union crony's have?

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Re: Obamacare

Postby Lord Ben » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:23 pm

Boyd Dowler wrote:Shouldn't we all have the same health care plan/benefits our elected representatives, unelected government employees paid for by our tax dollars, and their favored corporate and union crony's have?


NO! People should be free to pick better or worse and make their own money.

Ideally I'd like to see it divorced from employment and not run by the government. Car and Life insurance do this, I see no impossible obstacles for health insurance. It'd make for more portability between jobs, more stability, more competition as people are aware of the cost, etc.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby flapackfan » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:10 am

Just announced; Day 1 Oct 1st. a total of 6 people successfully enrolled. By the end of day 3 the total was 248. So when O says "the numbers are getting better" he is telling the truth.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen prove that they are insured, but doesn't require every person to prove they are a citizen. Many who can't prove they are citizens will receive free insurance from those that are citizens.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby Boyd Dowler » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:45 am

Lord Ben wrote:
Boyd Dowler wrote:Shouldn't we all have the same health care plan/benefits our elected representatives, unelected government employees paid for by our tax dollars, and their favored corporate and union crony's have?


NO! People should be free to pick better or worse and make their own money.

Ideally I'd like to see it divorced from employment and not run by the government. Car and Life insurance do this, I see no impossible obstacles for health insurance. It'd make for more portability between jobs, more stability, more competition as people are aware of the cost, etc.


I was talking about reality.

There's no freedom when you are forced to buy a product or service from a private (or public) enterprise at a price set by the government. Speaking of which, isn't that how business got in the habit of providing health care benefits in the first place? FDR's wage controls during WW 2 and the labor shortage forced business to add benefits like health care coverage to attract workers? The unintended consequences of socialist economic policies are endless.
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Re: Obamacare

Postby BF004 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:01 pm

Boyd Dowler wrote:The unintended consequences of socialist economic policies are endless.


This. I'll never accuse a dem of bad intentions, but they lack the integrity, foresight or courage to admit of the unintended consequences.
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