$15 Minimum Wage Ordinance Passed in Seattle

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Re: $15 Minimum Wage Ordinance Passed in Seattle

Postby BF004 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:10 pm

Mendeleev wrote:Canada, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, Denmark. All have greater economic freedom and equality,



Yup, exactly the point I'm trying to make, glad you got it. :D

Our healthcare is already crazy regulated, and broken, single payer is little an improvement at this point and I'm frankly not terribly against it personally.

Don't see how one can see graph after graph and statistics about economic freedom and yet still fight tooth and nail for more government control and regulation. Not saying anything about you specifically, but on average, we should all be fighting very very hard for less gov't intervention in our lives and economy. Because fact of the matter is, you, and myself, and wally, and yoop, will spend their money far more wisely and efficiently than our government. People don't need phones and unemployment checks given to them (on the average, some obviously need much help), they need job opportunities.


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Re: $15 Minimum Wage Ordinance Passed in Seattle

Postby Mendeleev » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:04 am

BF004 wrote:Because fact of the matter is, you, and myself, and wally, and yoop, will spend their money far more wisely and efficiently than our government.
Stongly disagree. People in general make poor decisions with money. Article after article about the debt load that people carry, poor retirement savings, etc.


Why is health care so much more expensive in the U.S. and still has lower life expectancy than so many countries? Economies of scale, greater bargaining power help reduce cost by quite a lot, and as a side benefit, poor people don't have to die as early.
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Re: $15 Minimum Wage Ordinance Passed in Seattle

Postby BF004 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:08 am

Yeah, then we'll absolutely have to just disagree if you trust these people to make financially sound decisions.

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Sure people rack up debt and tons of people are stupid, but people can learn if they have the freedom/necessity to, sadly can't say the same for Congress who are in debt to donors and have a high propensity to give gov't contracts to said donors and/or 'political allies' leading to both intentional and unintentional corruption. But glad to know where you stand, thought maybe we'd be able to have an intelligent discussion for a minute there. :P



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Re: $15 Minimum Wage Ordinance Passed in Seattle

Postby mike » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:59 am

actually I think SS has been a god send program for many people, same with medicare and medicad, abuse is higher now simply because Jobs that supply enough income are in shorter supply, most people are terrible money managers, unless they have someone to set up a retirement plan, they won't or can't do it themselves, same with healthcare, probably why we had so many uninsured prior to OB care.

graft in gov. is nothing new, unions just add to the corruption more at the state level, specially public unions, lobbyist, and campaign finance are the worst though, they buy more politicians then unions could ever hope to.
at least my wages never seemed to keep up with inflation, just look at wage equality.

some sort of single payer health plan is the only way I see us providing coverage for everyone at a cost they can afford.
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Re: $15 Minimum Wage Ordinance Passed in Seattle

Postby BF004 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:30 am

Also hate the argument we shouldn't trust people and they are bad with money. We do nothing to prepare people for the real world with our education, many people have become 'dependent' on the government, and we have an insanely complex tax system.

I am not advocating for anarchy of any stretch of the imagination, not even opposed to SS or single payer, but in general, we need to limit (not remove) the gov't intervention in our economy and return more power to it's citizens.


And yes, the more money/size in gov't/politics, the more likely there will be opportunities for corruption. One of the first rules I would change if I had the power to would be to make political contributions not tax deductible either to candidates or organizations that partake in the political arena.
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Re: $15 Minimum Wage Ordinance Passed in Seattle

Postby BF004 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:36 am

mike wrote:graft in gov. is nothing new, unions just add to the corruption more at the state level, specially public unions, lobbyist, and campaign finance are the worst though, they buy more politicians then unions could ever hope to.
at least my wages never seemed to keep up with inflation, just look at wage equality.

Already did :wink:
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Would you say our government has gotten bigger or smaller under Bush/Obama? 16 straight years big governement Presidents.

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Re: $15 Minimum Wage Ordinance Passed in Seattle

Postby Mendeleev » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:53 pm

BF004 wrote:But glad to know where you stand, thought maybe we'd be able to have an intelligent discussion for a minute there. :P

:AOK

If you truly believe that 100% of Americans are good at making sound long term decisions, more power to you. Or if you believe those who make poor decisions deserve their fate, great as well.

The current system has issues, the US has poor infant mortality rates (even taking into account the difference in registering live births), lower life expectancy, etc. There are millions without health coverage, and are hurting because of it. But if all of these issues are worthwhile sacrifices on the altar of small government, I guess we can keep the current system.
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