WWIII?

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Re: WWIII?

Postby get louder at lambeau » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:29 pm

GreenDay wrote:Production efficiency is skyrocketing - we are headed for a workless economy, based on tech alone, assuming we don't blow it up.


I agree. Automation is an unstoppable force. It will take over most jobs, no matter whether we think it should or not. Many jobs that have so far proven resistant to replacement by machines, like many white collar positions, will eventually not be, due to the emergence and improvements of artificial intelligence.

Right now, AI computers can already beat the best human champions at Jeopardy. High frequency trading algorithms are already competing with stock brokers. Many decision making positions would seem to be easy targets for AI in the medium term future. Bureaucratic positions in governments and large corporations could mostly become automated.

The real question is, when the systems of production just plain don't need most of the human population anymore, then what? State sponsored depopulation agendas? Class war of sociopolitical elites with drones and AI vs. the majority of humanity? Fascism and social darwinism? Welfare state communism? Idiocracy?
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Re: WWIII?

Postby Pckfn23 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:24 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/commen ... rs/cvsdmkv
What Stephen Hawking has to say on the subject.
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Re: WWIII?

Postby get louder at lambeau » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:03 pm

Pckfn23 wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3nyn5i/science_ama_series_stephen_hawking_ama_answers/cvsdmkv
What Stephen Hawking has to say on the subject.


Good stuff, thanks 23. Might as well quote his statement here -

If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality.


The Jetsons, or the Hunger Games?

He's certainly right about the current trend. That won't necessarily continue though.

Right now, rich people with advanced technology are killing millions of poor people without advanced technology. There WILL be a backlash to that, and eventually it won't just be Muslim extremists. It will be a global popular rebellion against central control. AKA revolution. History shows a pattern of centralized control, then rebellion.

The security state is in place to be able to fight ANY dissent, not just to fight jihadis in the Middle East. Hackers, whistleblowers, and journalists are already targets. So is the internet.
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Re: WWIII?

Postby Trudge » Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:24 am

Might be that the struggle to overthrow the Syrian government / Assad could be the straw that breaks the camel's back in regards to US / Russia conflict.

Both Russian and American forces have increased their air attacks on ISIS over the last few days, but this has only led to fears from military experts that we are growing closer and closer to an explosive scenario that could lead to World War 3.
Coalition forces, which are being led by the US, have confirmed that they have conducted 24 bombings on ISIS in Syria over the course of just 24 hours. Meanwhile, Russia have insisted that they’ve hit 55 of their targets in their own separate attacks.
Fears have been growing over the potential international tension in Syria because there have been claims that Russian forces have also been targeting rebel groups that aren’t actually associated with ISIS. Some of these have included fighters that have been trained by the United States.

Meanwhile it’s also been reported by The Mirror that Vladimir Putin has taunted the West for not getting “results,” especially in comparison to Russia’s alleged attacks.

However, the increasing activity in Syrian airspace is what is mostly worrying military experts. They’re concerned that there could easily be a collision between either nation’s warplanes, helicopters, drones, or missiles, which then could provoke a response from the other side.

There have even been reports that various US planes that have been flying over Syria have either had to abandon targets, or they’ve moved drastically away from Russian jets that they’ve come in close proximity to. Lt Gen Charles Brown, who is the commander of the American air campaign in Syria, has even admitted that US and Russian planes were within just 20 miles of each other at one point, which means that, because of the speeds that these aircraft travel at, they were just 30 seconds away from a collision.

Currently a Coalition and Pro-Assad forces have attacked Syria to try and dismiss ISIS from the area.
The Coalition contingent is made up of United States, United Kingdom, French, Australian, Saudi Arabian, Qatari, Belgian, Canadian, Jordanian, Dutch, Danish, and Turkish nations. These are helping to conduct airstrikes in Syria, and want Bashar al-Assad and ISIS removed from the region, so that a new government can be put in place.
Meanwhile the Pro-Assad team consists of Russian, Syrian, Iran, Chinese, Lebanese, and Iraqi armies.
Because of these warring factions, Syria has become a hot-bed of chaos, and there have been continued air attacks across different sections of the country.

Speaking to The Mirror, one military expert explained, “Rationalising such a complex airspace is not possible – like getting your mind round a Rubik’s Cube that moves around at Mach 1.5, then adding a dozen more.”
They continued, “Given the amount of military traffic in the air there is a real worry a plane will be shot down in catastrophic misunderstanding of intent. It means we could be seconds from a sudden escalation taking us to the very brink of war.”

Andrew Foxall, who works at the Henry Jackson Society think tank as an expert on Russia, believes that such a crash could result in a “diplomatic incident of catastrophic proportions.”

Foxall also admitted that the fact Russia has a completely “different objective to the Natio coalition and the western drive for liberal democracy and regime change in Syria” is of grave concern, and could even provoke a full-scale conflict on a global scale. Russia’s aim is to maintain “a pro-Russian regime in Syria,” while the fact that China have joined them has only confused matters even more.

There are worries that Chinese forces with the Pro-Assad coalition could try and attack other Syrian rebels that aren’t actually associated with ISIS. Plus, Iran are now allowing Russian forces to fly through their airspace, and there’s a concern that these two strong nations have joined together to fight in the Middle East.

The conflicting factions in this area have ever been compared to the circumstances in the build up to the First World War, when the Allies (England, France, Russia) and Central Powers (Germany, Austria-Hungary) were forced to go to War after the assassination of Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand, having each signed documents that they would support the other.


http://www.inquisitr.com/2488388/russia ... onds-away/
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Re: WWIII?

Postby wallyuwl » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:52 am

Hopefully the AI thing doesn't go too far. There is a point that it can go to before human intervention is needed, and the machines are only as good as their program. But more AI and automation isn't necessarily better. Just watch iRobot and The Avengers 2. I'm serious.
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Re: WWIII?

Postby Waldo » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:31 pm

wallyuwl wrote:Hopefully the AI thing doesn't go too far. There is a point that it can go to before human intervention is needed, and the machines are only as good as their program. But more AI and automation isn't necessarily better. Just watch iRobot and The Avengers 2. I'm serious.


There's a reason that the real leaders in tech are VERY serious about the AI threat. It may be a Sci Fi joke to the masses, but this is not the case with those actually developing AI.

Musk is not the only prominent personality cautioning humanity against the development of artificially intelligent machines. Many others, including the likes of Stephen Hawking, Bill Gates and Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak, have expressed serious concerns over the rise of AI.

“Whereas the short-term impact of AI depends on who controls it, the long-term impact depends on whether it can be controlled at all,” Hawking said in May last year.


http://www.ibtimes.com/artificial-intel ... st-1993787
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Re: WWIII?

Postby Waldo » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:42 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:
GreenDay wrote:Production efficiency is skyrocketing - we are headed for a workless economy, based on tech alone, assuming we don't blow it up.


I agree. Automation is an unstoppable force. It will take over most jobs, no matter whether we think it should or not. Many jobs that have so far proven resistant to replacement by machines, like many white collar positions, will eventually not be, due to the emergence and improvements of artificial intelligence.

Right now, AI computers can already beat the best human champions at Jeopardy. High frequency trading algorithms are already competing with stock brokers. Many decision making positions would seem to be easy targets for AI in the medium term future. Bureaucratic positions in governments and large corporations could mostly become automated.

The real question is, when the systems of production just plain don't need most of the human population anymore, then what? State sponsored depopulation agendas? Class war of sociopolitical elites with drones and AI vs. the majority of humanity? Fascism and social darwinism? Welfare state communism? Idiocracy?


The thing that no AI has tapped (and isn't really even all that theoretical, or expressed in Sci Fi) is creativity. creative endeavors simply cannot be replaced by AI.

Research, engineering, architecture, writing, photography, music, graphic arts, film, etc..., AI isn't much of a threat.

The one industry that is ripe for massive change via AI is the medical industry, and that is what Watson was primarily developed for. Despite its current lack of automation, creativity in the industry is minimal, its just too complex for simple machines. Complexity is not a problem though for increasingly advanced AI's, creativity is and will always be the problem.

The ideal outcome of the post-machine revolution has to be the utopia of Star Trek; the basic underpinning of it's universe is that machines and AI make life comfortable and easy for everyone; it ponders the next step in societal evolution where the acquisition of material wealth no longer drives people, instead people are driven by personal betterment.
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Re: WWIII?

Postby get louder at lambeau » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:22 pm

Waldo wrote:The thing that no AI has tapped (and isn't really even all that theoretical, or expressed in Sci Fi) is creativity. creative endeavors simply cannot be replaced by AI.

Research, engineering, architecture, writing, photography, music, graphic arts, film, etc..., AI isn't much of a threat.

The one industry that is ripe for massive change via AI is the medical industry, and that is what Watson was primarily developed for. Despite its current lack of automation, creativity in the industry is minimal, its just too complex for simple machines. Complexity is not a problem though for increasingly advanced AI's, creativity is and will always be the problem.


Here's a recent article on Google AI that might change your opinion -
http://www.iflscience.com/technology/ar ... nce-dreams
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Re: WWIII?

Postby Waldo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:31 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:
Waldo wrote:The thing that no AI has tapped (and isn't really even all that theoretical, or expressed in Sci Fi) is creativity. creative endeavors simply cannot be replaced by AI.

Research, engineering, architecture, writing, photography, music, graphic arts, film, etc..., AI isn't much of a threat.

The one industry that is ripe for massive change via AI is the medical industry, and that is what Watson was primarily developed for. Despite its current lack of automation, creativity in the industry is minimal, its just too complex for simple machines. Complexity is not a problem though for increasingly advanced AI's, creativity is and will always be the problem.


Here's a recent article on Google AI that might change your opinion -
http://www.iflscience.com/technology/ar ... nce-dreams


That is not really creativity though. The computer followed a set of rules defined by the programmer(s).

Though, jeez, this is extremely similar to what one sees when closing your eyes on a strong psychedelic like LSD. Sure brings back memories from college.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... 05bUdEMnhB
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Re: WWIII?

Postby get louder at lambeau » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:59 pm

Waldo wrote:
get louder at lambeau wrote:
Waldo wrote:The thing that no AI has tapped (and isn't really even all that theoretical, or expressed in Sci Fi) is creativity. creative endeavors simply cannot be replaced by AI.

Research, engineering, architecture, writing, photography, music, graphic arts, film, etc..., AI isn't much of a threat.

The one industry that is ripe for massive change via AI is the medical industry, and that is what Watson was primarily developed for. Despite its current lack of automation, creativity in the industry is minimal, its just too complex for simple machines. Complexity is not a problem though for increasingly advanced AI's, creativity is and will always be the problem.


Here's a recent article on Google AI that might change your opinion -
http://www.iflscience.com/technology/ar ... nce-dreams


That is not really creativity though. The computer followed a set of rules defined by the programmer(s).

Though, jeez, this is extremely similar to what one sees when closing your eyes on a strong psychedelic like LSD. Sure brings back memories from college.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... 05bUdEMnhB


What would be a good definition of "creativity" to use? This starts to be the issue. It's a weird concept. The AI produced an image based on what it inferred from examining its subject, which in this case was randomized white noise static. If a hippie chick in college does the same thing, words like "creativity", "imagination", and "art" are used to describe her process.

What is it when AI does something similar? How is it different? At the very least, this is AI successfully mimicking "creativity" at a low level.

If the hippie chick studied at an art school, and "follows a set of rules designed by" her art teacher (say Monet-ish impressionist techniques), but creates a unique work, is she being creative? Without the "programming" she got from other humans from birth to the time of the creation of her masterpiece, would she be similarly "creative"? It all comes down to where the line between learning/programming and creativity is drawn, right? Where is the line? Is there a clear delineation, or is it subjective and arbitrary?

:dunno
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Re: WWIII?

Postby get louder at lambeau » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:26 pm

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Re: WWIII?

Postby wallyuwl » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:02 am

get louder at lambeau wrote:One step closer to WWIII -
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-2 ... y-response


Posturing. China needs us to buy their stuff or their economy will tank much, much further. We need them to buy our debt because of our massive socialist programs and military industrial complex. Russia is the much bigger threat if we're talking about two large countries warring.
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Re: WWIII?

Postby get louder at lambeau » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:28 am

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Re: WWIII?

Postby get louder at lambeau » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:15 pm

NATO member Turkey shoots down Russian plane near Syrian/Turkish border.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/24/turkey-s ... order.html
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Re: WWIII?

Postby BF004 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:58 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:NATO member Turkey shoots down Russian plane near Syrian/Turkish border.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/24/turkey-s ... order.html

Saw that this morning.

Although not very well versed in everything, but I believe Turkey is a huge ally for us in the neighborhood and our bases are there that we are attacking Iraq and Syria with.

Obvious they are not as welcoming to Russia. But again, seems like we all have a very common enemy, why not just let everyone turns their heads and give Russia the green light to take it to ISIS as hard as they can? Why is a NATO member shooting down a plane that is combatting ISIS??
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