The Covert Origins Of ISIS

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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:16 pm

US Admits Paying Terrorists for Services Rendered in Syria -
http://www.activistpost.com/2015/06/us- ... s-for.html
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:03 pm

More confirmation of USG support of terrorists -
http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/07/02/j ... yria-libya
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:07 pm

A Freudian slip?

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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:11 pm

Does this guy wear a tinfoil hat? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_T._Flynn

President Obama’s former top military intelligence official, recently-retired US Army Lt. General Mike Flynn, Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency from 2012 - 2014 recently "admitted the US prison system in Iraq in the post-war period “absolutely” helped radicalize Iraqis who later joined Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) and ISIL."

Much more insight from the Lt. General here, from an interview that is soon to be on TV.
http://pr.aljazeera.com/post/1242308873 ... al-jazeera
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:17 pm

Here is the interview I mentioned in the last post. Some apparently candid insight from a top-level USG insider. You just won't find this kind of stuff on mainstream American media.

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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:45 pm

Here's an article that claims that the Syrian Government is winning it's civil war vs. ISIS and their allied "moderate rebels" that the USG armed. Lots of detail compared to the average western propaganda, much of which contradicts what we hear. The author is an Australian Professor with a PhD who has degrees in economics and international politics.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e42596.htm
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby APB » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:09 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:Here's an article that claims that the Syrian Government is winning it's civil war vs. ISIS and their allied "moderate rebels" that the USG armed. Lots of detail compared to the average western propaganda, much of which contradicts what we hear. The author is an Australian Professor with a PhD who has degrees in economics and international politics.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e42596.htm

Interesting article. Apparently so much going on behind the scenes that you don't know who to believe.

I still find it hard to believe there has been a U.S. led conspiracy spanning multiple administrations with the goal of destroying and then then propping friendlier regimes in the Middle East. Dem's and Repub's can't agree on which brand of toilet paper to use in the congressional latrines let alone cooperate in a decades long war against regional governments. Stranger things have happened, though. Hell, just the fact the Saudis are involved makes it suspicious.
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:23 pm

APB wrote:Interesting article. Apparently so much going on behind the scenes that you don't know who to believe.

I still find it hard to believe there has been a U.S. led conspiracy spanning multiple administrations with the goal of destroying and then then propping friendlier regimes in the Middle East. Dem's and Repub's can't agree on which brand of toilet paper to use in the congressional latrines let alone cooperate in a decades long war against regional governments. Stranger things have happened, though. Hell, just the fact the Saudis are involved makes it suspicious.


As far as "you don't know who to believe", I know what you mean. We do know that we should probably NOT trust people/groups who are known to have lied to us about related topics before. Also important is to discern motive. Lies are tools that are used to advance agendas. In this case, they lied to get the populace to support a series of illegal wars.

I know this stuff sounds hard to believe at first. It sounds crazy because it runs counter to the war propaganda that our Government feeds us through a covertly controlled mainstream media. When we are indoctrinated to believe something, information to the contrary rings false, even if it is in fact true.

The evidence is there if you look for it. The more you look, the more it adds up. This is actually not abnormal for our Government, and it is not constrained to the Middle East either. And yes, it spans multiple administrations. We act as a global empire, and have overthrown quite a few Governments all over the planet for many decades. It is often done covertly, and the truth is not necessarily ever meant to be known by the general populace, even though I would argue that we NEED to know this stuff to be able to be properly informed voters. Here is a basic list of some of the more well-known USG covert regime change operations - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_Un ... ge_actions

With regard to ISIS, here is John Yoo, former Justice Department legal enabler of the Bush Administration's torture program, in 2005. - "Another tool would have our intelligence agencies create a false terrorist organization. It could have its own websites, recruitment centers, training camps and fundraising operations. It could launch fake terrorist operations and claim credit for real terrorist strikes, helping to sow confusion within Al Qaeda's ranks, causing operatives to doubt others' identities and to question the validity of communications." http://articles.latimes.com/2005/jul/13 ... n/oe-yoo13

A year later the Islamic State In Iraq (now ISIS) was created, not in Iran or Syria, but in American-occupied Iraq. ISIS seems to fit John Yoo's suggestion to a T. It would not be new for the US to manipulate Islamic fundamentalists into being their proxy force. The most well known instance is when they did it very successfully against the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 70s. Bin Laden was part of the Mujahideen that we supported back then. Some say he was a CIA operative.

If they really wanted to stop ISIS, don't you think they could do something that would stop ISIS from getting their oil onto the world market? It comes from known oil wells, and is transported by either tanker trucks or pipelines across a vast, open desert, to known refineries. Doesn't seem like it would be too complicated to hit them right in the wallet. Instead, the US seems to only make token efforts to stop ISIS, while the USG rattles their sabres at two of the groups that are fighting ISIS most successfully - the Syrian and Iranian governments. Meanwhile, Obama himself admits that the USG STILL doesn't have a "complete strategy" for fighting ISIS, nine years after The Islamic State officially formed. http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/08/politics/ ... ermany-g7/

General Wesley Clark says that he was told, at the Pentagon, shortly after 9/11, that they were planning to "take out 7 countries in 5 years" (apparently in addition to Afghanistan) - Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and finally Iran. We have since destroyed two of those countries, Iraq and Libya, and made them into terrorist safehavens where ISIS is currently thriving. In another - Syria, we are supporting the side that ISIS is on in their civil war. More than a few in our Government still seem hellbent on attacking Iran.

If you want to see where that plan seems to have originated, you'll find that it has roots that predate the 9/11 attacks. You'll stumble across the neocon thinktank "Project For A New American Century". Look a little further, and you'll find commonalities with the Israeli Government's "Yinon Plan" from way back in the 1980s, predating even Operation Desert Storm. It pushes a divide and conquer strategy similar to what seems to have been slowly unfolding over the last decade plus.

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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby APB » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:44 am

Am I to believe the Canadian media is also in on the ruse to convince everyone that the Syrian government is the bad guy?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/government-air-raids-outside-syria-s-capital-kill-more-than-80-wound-hundreds-1.2519135
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:29 pm

APB wrote:Am I to believe the Canadian media is also in on the ruse to convince everyone that the Syrian government is the bad guy?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/government-air-raids-outside-syria-s-capital-kill-more-than-80-wound-hundreds-1.2519135


Not trying to tell you what to believe. You need to figure that out for yourself. I'd be interested in hearing what you think after you look further into this stuff. You might find different information and come to different conclusions than I would. I assume that you at least don't distrust General Clark's words, right? I think you served under him in Kosovo, didn't you?

As to media from other countries, western mainstream media in general seems to be "in on it", to use your phrase. Yes, I know - it sounds crazier and crazier. But with the massive, global scope of the recent NSA revelations, this fits right in. They strive to accumulate as much control as they can get, and the media is one of the main "levers of power" that they can gain influence over. The CIA has been infiltrating both domestic and international media since at least the 50s, as was partially exposed in the 1970s by the Senate's Church Committee. It is/was called Operation Mockingbird. They can basically make their own reality by having a dominant position in media. People will distrust things that are ignored by the mainstream media because of a general societal belief that we have a "free press".

Last year the former editor of a major German newspaper talked about how it works from his personal experience working with the CIA over decades. Read this, watch his interview, then google his name and click "news" to see who covered it. You'll find no, or at least very few, mainstream western media outlets. That just kinda illustrates the reach of this influence, IMO. - http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-offici ... ia/5407118

Here is the face of CNN, Anderson Cooper, being confronted about this stuff. He pretends that it's totally ridiculous, squirms and dodges the questions, pretending to be busy with his phone, and then the bodyguards come out to "save" him from the CIA questions.



Here is the 1970s article that Pulitzer Prize Winner Carl Berstein, of Watergate reporting fame, wrote about the CIA and the media back then, complete with a mention of the involvement of one time CIA Director George HW Bush. -
http://www.carlbernstein.com/magazine_cia_and_media.php
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby yoop » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:47 pm

We've had corruption at the highest level all my life, I wouldn't doubt any of this Louder, when the factions within our Gov. scheme to kill it's own president as they did with Kennedy, from that un speakable act of treason it's a easy leap forward to something like this.

never before in our history has our court system taken the vote away from the people as it did to Al Gore in that election, thats a act of treason in itself, then to go to war based on lies and deciet as we did with Iraq under the guise of stopping terrorism seemed pre ordained once we did it, I have a hard time believing this stuff with the trade center attacks, but then I believed in a lone attack on Kennedy at first as well, now days, like others I'am skeptical of anything the gov. is trying to sell me, to many lies told over the years.
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:03 pm

Here's one you might appreciate, APB, from someone I would think you might respect - Retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson, who was Colin Powell's Chief of Staff.

This is the man who personally prepared Powell's now infamous presentation to the UN making the case for going to war with Iraq. He has since stated, "My participation in that presentation at the UN constitutes the lowest point in my professional life. I participated in a hoax on the American people, the international community and the United Nations Security Council."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_ ... 2a_hoax.22

If you want to know how things really work, here's a great start with some candid insight from a conservative Army guy like yourself who helped shape our geostrategy. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts after you watch this, whenever you get the time. It's not short, but it's definitely worth a watch.

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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby APB » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:34 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:Here is the interview I mentioned in the last post. Some apparently candid insight from a top-level USG insider. You just won't find this kind of stuff on mainstream American media.


Some interesting exchanges in the video.

The striking thing to me is Flynn's admission that DIA knew specifically in 2012 that a caliphate regime was poised to move into the region and claim its stake yet the administration's decision in Syria was to lay in wait and let it happen. Now, as a result, the administration has made a concerted effort to, as the general says, "invest in conflict rather than invest in a solution." In other words, we're buying more drones, bombs, and weapons systems to fight these guys rather than address the underlying issues that are causing the conflict. That speaks directly to the motivations of conflict and corruption in contractor influence that we have discussed and agree upon.

That said, there is a lot more to digest here. I can't say I've drawn any conclusions but it's worth reading further into. I'm certainly not convinced, as you seem to be, that the US was/is in direct support of ISIL and that our government is secretly waging a war playing both sides. That, to me, is a stretch. There's incompetence and poor foresight, but I'm not convinced there's conspiracy on the level you're suggesting.

As a side note, I get the impression you came to a seemingly premature conclusion on this stuff (global conspiracy theory) and are now searching for pieces to make your conclusion fit while, at the same time, disregarding any mainstream media reporting that contradicts your position and subsequently framing their reporting as another piece to this worldwide conspiracy. Maybe I'm completely off on that feeling but the links from some of these obscure or obviously slanted (Al Jazeera) websites seem to support the notion. That's your prerogative but it doesn't make it necessarily so.
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:32 am

APB wrote:Some interesting exchanges in the video.

The striking thing to me is Flynn's admission that DIA knew specifically in 2012 that a caliphate regime was poised to move into the region and claim its stake yet the administration's decision in Syria was to lay in wait and let it happen. Now, as a result, the administration has made a concerted effort to, as the general says, "invest in conflict rather than invest in a solution." In other words, we're buying more drones, bombs, and weapons systems to fight these guys rather than address the underlying issues that are causing the conflict. That speaks directly to the motivations of conflict and corruption in contractor influence that we have discussed and agree upon.

That said, there is a lot more to digest here. I can't say I've drawn any conclusions but it's worth reading further into. I'm certainly not convinced, as you seem to be, that the US was/is in direct support of ISIL and that our government is secretly waging a war playing both sides. That, to me, is a stretch. There's incompetence and poor foresight, but I'm not convinced there's conspiracy on the level you're suggesting.

As a side note, I get the impression you came to a seemingly premature conclusion on this stuff (global conspiracy theory) and are now searching for pieces to make your conclusion fit while, at the same time, disregarding any mainstream media reporting that contradicts your position and subsequently framing their reporting as another piece to this worldwide conspiracy. Maybe I'm completely off on that feeling but the links from some of these obscure or obviously slanted (Al Jazeera) websites seem to support the notion. That's your prerogative but it doesn't make it necessarily so.


I'm OK with changing my conclusion, if the evidence supports it. I'm interested in sources and opinions that contradict what I think so far. Please bring the best you have. I'm looking for some semblance of truth in the face of a Government who lies constantly and a media that mostly parrots what the USG tells them.

Seems like you may want to consider perspective a little. Everyone thinks the OTHER side is the "obviously slanted" one. We should consider that our American press might serve a similar function. To not do so is hypocritical and foolish. Both/all sides have an agenda, not just everyone else. "We" do too. There are plenty of REAL reasons to be suspicious that our press might be controlled through Governmental authority (National Security letters are real, CIA manipulation via Operation Mockingbird is/was real), to corporate control by only a handful of corporations (5 or 6 companies control the vast majority of media), to other angles that some may point to.

Did you get a chance to watch the video with Colonel Wilkerson yet? I'd be curious to hear if that video changes your opinion at all. I think it might.

Make no mistake, I would love to be totally wrong, because this looks pretty damn ugly from my angle.
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Re: The Covert Origins Of ISIS

Postby get louder at lambeau » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:32 pm

Washington (CNN) - The Defense Department's inspector general is believed to be reviewing an allegation that U.S. intelligence gathered on ISIS was altered, an official told CNN Wednesday, after The New York Times reported that the IG might be looking into whether intelligence reports about the terror group were amended.

A U.S. defense official told CNN it is believed the inspector general is looking into some question on ISIS intelligence, but the Pentagon said it cannot comment on IG matters because that organization operates independently of the Pentagon and the department has no knowledge of what it is doing.

The response came after a Times report late Tuesday that at least one civilian Defense Intelligence Agency analyst said he had evidence that showed that individuals at U.S. Central Command were adjusting intelligence reports for top officials -- including President Barack Obama -- to enhance the amount of progress the United States had made in fighting ISIS.


Read the rest here -
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/26/polit ... elligence/
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