Ferguson

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Re: Ferguson

Postby BF004 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:25 pm

Ghost_Lombardi wrote:
Lets face it, the kind of people that grow up to be cops need very strong leashes when it comes to the use of force, especially deadly, and they pretty much have no leashes. The cops are a bigger menace to public safety than criminals are.


Dumbest thing I've read today.

Cheri Maples
Mike Koval
Katherine Cherne
Caleb Bedford
Sue Williams

I knew all of these people very well. Worked alongside them. None of them needed a leash. Most were social workers more than they were cops.

But I'm sure you find it easier to engage in hyperbole and blanket statements rather than think before you type.

Agree, 2 that I know that are cops are very quiet, passive good people, just finding a niche they looked and thought was noble. However, a third I know does fit this description, however, a terrible blanket stereotype and a ludicrous resulting conclusion/statement to wrap it up.

There have been a few, if not tens of article supporting your conclusion, unfortunately there are 10-100x more egregious crimes than that every day.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Waldo » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:35 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:
Pckfn23 wrote:Heard an interesting quote a while back. Sheriffs and Police Chiefs are elected officials, they work to get re-elected, not to seek the truth.


Our Sheriff here in El Paso County (Colorado Springs) was recently removed (er, he retired, technically) for being a typical politician-style sleazeball. http://gazette.com/investigation-into-f ... le/1556607


Ours killed his election opponent....

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/sidney-d ... der/nFCmR/
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Waldo » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:46 pm

BF004 wrote:
Ghost_Lombardi wrote:
Lets face it, the kind of people that grow up to be cops need very strong leashes when it comes to the use of force, especially deadly, and they pretty much have no leashes. The cops are a bigger menace to public safety than criminals are.


Dumbest thing I've read today.

Cheri Maples
Mike Koval
Katherine Cherne
Caleb Bedford
Sue Williams

I knew all of these people very well. Worked alongside them. None of them needed a leash. Most were social workers more than they were cops.

But I'm sure you find it easier to engage in hyperbole and blanket statements rather than think before you type.

Agree, 2 that I know that are cops are very quiet, passive good people, just finding a niche they looked and thought was noble. However, a third I know does fit this description, however, a terrible blanket stereotype and a ludicrous resulting conclusion/statement to wrap it up.

There have been a few, if not tens of article supporting your conclusion, unfortunately there are 10-100x more egregious crimes than that every day.


The people that I knew that grew up to be cops were pretty much the same type as Kelibold and Harris, just not as extreme; instead of taking out the school and themselves in a fit of rage, they became cops.

Very little of what police do has anything to do with protecting the public within the boundaries of the constitution anymore. The drug war and their need to make money off the public (in addition to the free warantless searches they get in the process) has caused their mission to drift so far that it is totally unrelated to public good. That and their good ol unions pushing both sides to open public wallets for more, more, more; scaring people then playing the part of the white knight there to save everyone from evil. The cops, the only union the right loves.

What are the cops gonna do when we move to driverless cars? Probably find a way to justify a doubling of the force, so they can spend their time going door to door looking for crime, searching houses because they saw paint chipping or broken gutters, or grass that was 1/10th of an inch too long.

I grew up in a state of fear from ridiculous overzealous policing. Needless to say, I have nothing but hatred for them and the system, and always will. Our system is totally and completely broken, we aren't terribly far off from a Judge Dredd type dystopia. 1984ish thoughtcrime and big brother have been here a long time.

By allowing politicians to create the drug war and the patriot act, we have completely ceded all individual and property rights. Thoughtcrime can be treated as crime and be addressed by the judge/jury/executioner that shows up eating donuts, and they have all power they need to go looking for thoughtcrime, warrants being an unnecessary inconvenience from an age long ago.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby BF004 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:59 pm

Not at all saying there aren't institutional issues, not commented on that part of your post, but hating cops and stereotyping all of them as having a certain motives/behaviors/backgrounds is nothing but blatant bigotry.

There are surely a few bad apples and institutional shortcomings, but like everything else, majority are surely good spirited and well intention individuals who don't deserve the flak they are getting. Don't hate the player, hate the game, right?
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Re: Ferguson

Postby APB » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:38 am

Ghost_Lombardi wrote:
Lets face it, the kind of people that grow up to be cops need very strong leashes when it comes to the use of force, especially deadly, and they pretty much have no leashes. The cops are a bigger menace to public safety than criminals are.


Dumbest thing I've read today.

Cheri Maples
Mike Koval
Katherine Cherne
Caleb Bedford
Sue Williams

I knew all of these people very well. Worked alongside them. None of them needed a leash. Most were social workers more than they were cops.

But I'm sure you find it easier to engage in hyperbole and blanket statements rather than think before you type.

Yeah, gotta agree. To paint with such a broad brush is...misguided, to put it mildly.

My son is a cop. I know a lot of cops. They are not the "menace to public safety" you'd like to portray them as. And you know what else? They're just as concerned - more so even - about these idiots out there abusing their power and making the vast majority look bad.

I'm also curious, elaborate on "the kind of people who need strong leashes" bit. Describe for me these type personalities you're so familiar with, would you?
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Re: Ferguson

Postby get louder at lambeau » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:38 pm

APB wrote:My son is a cop. I know a lot of cops. They are not the "menace to public safety" you'd like to portray them as. And you know what else? They're just as concerned - more so even - about these idiots out there abusing their power and making the vast majority look bad.

I'm also curious, elaborate on "the kind of people who need strong leashes" bit. Describe for me these type personalities you're so familiar with, would you?


I will chime in. I asked a former cop (nice guy, customer of mine) flat out if there were a-holes who took the job just for the power trip. He said most cops aren't like that, but that some of them definitely were. I asked him to quantify it, and he said about 20%. That fits well with BOTH narratives. Most cops are good people, but quite a few are not.

It only makes sense that both good, well-intentioned citizens AND bullies craving power would try to get police jobs. I don't see why it has to be one or the other, when it seems so clearly to be some of each. 20% would be WAY more than "a few bad apples." 20% would indicate a major systemic problem, IMO. And that was a cop's estimate.

I think Waldo is right about the system being broken. I don't hate cops, but I do hate the system. And I do hate it when I see cops while driving, because there is a predator/prey type relationship between cops and citizens who get "caught" in their traps like flies in a spider's web.

I got pulled over for my license plate being crooked last year. No joke. That was his ONLY reason for pulling me over. State patrol. No ticket issued, not even a warning, because there probably is no law to write one based on, just valiantly saving the world from the evils of crooked license plates, and looking suspiciously at the driver, just in case there is something that they could find to #$%! with me for. Not much different than what Waldo predicts for our police state future, but it's happening now. Luckily, I'm not black, so I survived the encounter. :wink:

Also luckily, I didn't have a chunk of cash on me, now that having American money is considered evidence of a possible crime, and your money is considered guilty unless you can prove it is innocent at your own expense. For anyone unfamiliar, that is happening all over the country right now, and is called "civil forfeiture". Cops get to keep the money to fund their departments. Pretty #$%! up to allow law enforcement that kind of incentive to literally steal without due process. Here's an article on it -http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2014/09/11/how-cops-got-a-license-to-steal-your-money/
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Re: Ferguson

Postby get louder at lambeau » Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:48 pm

Damn hippies in California want to ban cops from getting grenade launchers and machine guns!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-1 ... chers-tank
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Waldo » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:10 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:I think Waldo is right about the system being broken. I don't hate cops, but I do hate the system. And I do hate it when I see cops while driving, because there is a predator/prey type relationship between cops and citizens who get "caught" in their traps like flies in a spider's web.


The drug war is even more egregious because instead of a unlike a predator/prey relationship that at least starts out on the level of communication (though if black or otherwise thuggish looking, you get the drawn gun treatment), as in the case with traffic law stuff, the drug war has a combat type relationship that often opens with the use of force (cops involved in drug raids pretty much treat the situation like combat special forces would, and this is against US citizens!, yes our government is at war with us).

But most egregious of all is the war on terror. The constitution no longer applies and the full might of the US intelligence apparatus, plus any and all force (police or military) deemed useful, is brought to bear. Again, US citizens are often the target. Spying on the public for thoughtcrime is perfectly legal (stopping terror means stopping it before it happens, before an actual crime is committed, when it is merely thoughtcrime).

What public good does an interstate speed trap serve? Why do we allow the police to pull people over period (unless an obvious crime (not a ticketable offense) is being committed)? Why do we send in the special forces to stop someone from smoking a joint? Why do we allow the police to torture to extract information, or at least look the other way when it occurs? Why do we allow the government to spy on us?
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Waldo » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:51 pm

Big brother is already here.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... byist.html

Warrants? Nah. Unlimited spying on the population? Yep.

"...spoke openly about the potential use of unmanned systems in North Dakota," at the conference, Nelson said. "The list included the deployment of a hovering drone that was ‘Not audible or visible to people below in order to collect real time intelligence video.'"


Rost said he needs to use drones for surveillance in order to obtain a warrant in the first place.

“If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear,” Becker remembered opponents like Rost saying.


Of course they already know where you are at all times though, perfectly legally with no warrant. Intercepting who your emails are to has nothing on cell trackers when it comes to invasion of privacy.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics ... arrant-Now

https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy-tec ... ng-devices

The cops very much have a big brother role. This isn't some special national security agency in a obscure building somewhere in Washington, this is the cops, 100's of thousands of them everywhere, who already had way too much power to begin with, who now are also armed with tanks and RPGs (good ol lefty Cali just banned that tho).
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