The Rise Of Fascism

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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:20 pm

dsr wrote:
get louder at lambeau wrote:Just as a random little reminder that actual history of fascism is often not well known today, here is an old video of the current Queen of England giving a Nazi salute as a small child in the early 1930s, lead by her dad, who would later become King of Edward VIII, a known Nazi sympathizer.

Apparently, this video is just being published for the first time now -
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... esses.html

You really are gullible, louder. No doubt if anyone were to tell you that Princess Elizabeth's dad never was and never would be Edward VIII, you'd just put it down as another grand conspiracy by the government to lead us all astray. You stick with your beliefs, louder. They don't let truth get in their way.

FWIW, in 1933 the full history of Wrld War 2 hadn't come out [in case you don't know, WW2 ran from 1939 to 1945]. Few people knew that the newly-elected leader of Germany was any more than a Charlie-Chaplin lookalike with the same comedy value. Which could explain why the 7 year old princess's uncle was encouraging her to take the p*** out of him.

I see why you've put this on a Pilger thread, though. Decide what your conclusion is, then find a tiny bit of truth, twist it and bend it into shape, ignore any larger bits of truth that get in the way of your conclusion, and add a few lies to spice it up. No wonder you admire Pilger - your favourite websites work the same way.


My bad on saying her dad. It was her uncle. Right guy, Edward VIII, wrong inter-familial relationship.

As to Edward VIII "taking the piss out of" Hitler in 1933, here is Edward again in 1937 meeting Hitler personally. Is he mocking him here too, four years later? Does he still think Hitler is just a funny looking comedian at this point? The text (link below) says that he gave "full Nazi slautes" this time too. What a hoot! -

Image

How about here? Is he just having a little chuckle at those silly comedic uniforms of the Nazi SS? Admittedly, I never really understood British humor. -

Image

I'm no expert on the history of the British Royals, by a longshot. But then again, obviously, neither are you, so maybe you would be well-served to read up a little more on the subject at hand before getting all uppity and condescending, OK?

Here's a quick rundown of what wikipedia says about Edward VIII during WWII. It includes gullible looneys like Winston Churchill and Franklin Delano Roosevelt reacting strongly to Edward's perceived pro-Hitler sentiments. Too bad they didn't have you around to "correct" them like I do, dsr. Maybe you could have straightened out those conspiracy-believing, tinfoil-hatted morons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VI ... _World_War
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:33 pm

This documentary is from Britain's "Channel 4", from 1995. Dsr, please watch this and then revisit this comment of yours, and fill in the blank with either your name or mine as you see appropriate -

"You stick with your beliefs, ______. They don't let truth get in their way."


You or me?

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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby dsr » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:13 am

get louder at lambeau wrote:My bad on saying her dad. It was her uncle. Right guy, Edward VIII, wrong inter-familial relationship.


You thought the Queen's father and WW2 king was showing her a Nazi salute; you find out it was her uncle and WW2 Governor of the Bahamas. And you think that's a trivial difference?

get louder at lambeau wrote:As to Edward VIII "taking the piss out of" Hitler in 1933, here is Edward again in 1937 meeting Hitler personally. Is he mocking him here too, four years later? Does he still think Hitler is just a funny looking comedian at this point? The text (link below) says that he gave "full Nazi slautes" this time too. What a hoot! -


By then he was a private individual, living in exile in France. He had no governmental authority at all. nor any influence over Princess Elizabeth.

get louder at lambeau wrote:I'm no expert on the history of the British Royals, by a longshot. But then again, obviously, neither are you, so maybe you would be well-served to read up a little more on the subject at hand before getting all uppity and condescending, OK?


Try not to look as big a fool as you are. You didn't even know who the Queen's father was. I certainly did know that the Duke of Windsor (formerly Edward VIII) was an appeaser of the Nazis, though in spite of being exiled I doubt he was a supporter of Germany over Britain. But I also know what you obviously didn't, that he was irrelevant then and even more irrelevant now. The Queen is not descended from him, she has taken little or no influence from him, and she didn't even see him from age 10 up to when she became Queen.

As for being condescending, what if I am? If I'm being condescending, it's about something I know something about. You're trying to be condescending from a position of ignorance. It doesn't work.
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:44 am

dsr wrote:
get louder at lambeau wrote:My bad on saying her dad. It was her uncle. Right guy, Edward VIII, wrong inter-familial relationship.


You thought the Queen's father and WW2 king was showing her a Nazi salute; you find out it was her uncle and WW2 Governor of the Bahamas. And you think that's a trivial difference?


I never said that he was King during WWII. Maybe try sticking to what I actually said. I said he was King Edward VIII, which he was. And I said he was a known Nazi sympathizer, which again he was, not just some guy innocently poking fun of Hitler and having it misconstrued, as you claimed. Own up to what you said. You attacked the entire concept as just being a joke. "Charlie Chaplin" and all that, remember?

dsr wrote:
get louder at lambeau wrote:As to Edward VIII "taking the piss out of" Hitler in 1933, here is Edward again in 1937 meeting Hitler personally. Is he mocking him here too, four years later? Does he still think Hitler is just a funny looking comedian at this point? The text (link below) says that he gave "full Nazi slautes" this time too. What a hoot! -


By then he was a private individual, living in exile in France. He had no governmental authority at all. nor any influence over Princess Elizabeth.


Duke of Winsor is the title of a private individual with no governmental authority, not a high ranking member of a monarchy? Again, I don't claim to be an expert on your Monarchy, but that doesn't sound quite right. He held the rank of Major-General around that time too, not sure exactly when he got that title.

dsr wrote:
get louder at lambeau wrote:I'm no expert on the history of the British Royals, by a longshot. But then again, obviously, neither are you, so maybe you would be well-served to read up a little more on the subject at hand before getting all uppity and condescending, OK?


Try not to look as big a fool as you are. You didn't even know who the Queen's father was. I certainly did know that the Duke of Windsor (formerly Edward VIII) was an appeaser of the Nazis, though in spite of being exiled I doubt he was a supporter of Germany over Britain. But I also know what you obviously didn't, that he was irrelevant then and even more irrelevant now. The Queen is not descended from him, she has taken little or no influence from him, and she didn't even see him from age 10 up to when she became Queen.

As for being condescending, what if I am? If I'm being condescending, it's about something I know something about. You're trying to be condescending from a position of ignorance. It doesn't work.


He was so irrelevant that he held the titles King, Duke, Governor, and Major-General, and who met Hitler and inspected the SS. So irrelevant, and such a private citizen when he was in France, that Churchill threatened him with a military Court-Martial.

My earlier mistake can be corrected in the change of one word from "dad" to "uncle". Everything else still fits just fine. I mistook the adult "King" who is in the backyard playing with the child who will become "Queen" as a dad, not an uncle. An honest, understandable mistake. I owned up to that already, but you can harp on it all you want. I'm not too concerned about looking like a fool. I said I am no expert on your Royals. It's not like being an American who doesn't know British Royalty genealogy is anything that I or any other American would ever feel ashamed about.

So what if you are condescending, you ask? Well, considering you just changed your position completely, your haughtiness just makes you look dumb and obnoxious, IMHO. Previously you mocked the idea that Edward's salute was anything more than a joke, and now you say you knew all along that he was a serious Nazi sympathizer. Here it is again, as your wrote it. -

Few people knew that the newly-elected leader of Germany was any more than a Charlie-Chaplin lookalike with the same comedy value. Which could explain why the 7 year old princess's uncle was encouraging her to take the p*** out of him.


Anyway, this topic isn't about you, or me either for that matter. It's about fascism. People generally don't seem to know too much about fascism, and instead just react emotionally like you did to it, as if it's just a ridiculously hyperbolic, meaningless insult, even though many people used to be open about and proud of their fascist-leanings, even in the US and Britain. I thought people might take note of an eventual British King and eventual British Queen both doing a fascist salute way back when as illustrative of how many of us have very little knowledge of the nature and history of fascism and it's current state in the world today. Partially that is because it is intentionally hidden by the powers that be, like this video was hidden for the last 82 years by your Royals.

We have a fascist history here in the US from the same time period that isn't very well known either. In the 1930s, Senator Prescott Bush, father of our 43rd President, grandpa to our 45th, as well as to new Presidential front-runner Jeb Bush, was involved. "(John Loftus) has suggested that Prescott Bush “should have been tried for treason, because they continued to support Hitler after the U.S. entered the war. Loftus, who describes himself as “a former prosecutor with the U.S. Justice Department’s Nazi-hunting unit,” has added the reassurance that he “could have made the case." http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1811

There was an attempted fascist coup in the US in the 1930s too. Few know anything about that either, just like few know about your former King's leanings. I find it interesting that this stuff isn't more widely known. You can act like I'm crazy for thinking that governments hide lots of crazy-sounding secrets if you want, but history shows that they do. Your government isn't immune, and neither is mine.
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby dsr » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:44 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:There was an attempted fascist coup in the US in the 1930s too. Few know anything about that either, just like few know about your former King's leanings. I find it interesting that this stuff isn't more widely known. You can act like I'm crazy for thinking that governments hide lots of crazy-sounding secrets if you want, but history shows that they do. Your government isn't immune, and neither is mine.


There was one in most countries. You've heard of Oswald Mosley.

I don't think you're crazy for thinking that governments hide lots of crazy-sounding secrets. The reason I think you're crazy is that you think every single crazy-sounding secret is true.

The only reason you didn't know about our former King's leanings is because you didn't know who he was. It's well known in the UK, and by anyone with much knowledge of UK history over there I dare say, that there were plenty of appeasers, including Chamberlain and Halifax right up to 1938 and possibly beyond. Why do you think Churchill's time out of office was called "The Wilderness Years"? It wasn't because he had lots of influential friends on his side.

And FYI, virtually everyone who grew up in Britain since the thirties has at some point made a fascist salute. Usually accompanied by two fingers of the other hand held under the nose to symbolise the moustache. It doesn't mean that Britain is a hotbed of fascism - most 7 year olds aren't really that deep a political thinker.
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:09 am

dsr wrote:I don't think you're crazy for thinking that governments hide lots of crazy-sounding secrets. The reason I think you're crazy is that you think every single crazy-sounding secret is true.


I never had a tendency towards believing conspiracy theories. No bigfoot, monsters, ghosts, UFOs, faked moonlandings, or any of that for me. I don't buy into childish, fantastic ideas about demons and angels, an afterlife, or reincarnation either. Never had much interest in the JFK stuff (until just recently). I don't buy into the chemtrails stuff, suppressed free power, the Obama is a Kenyan-Muslim thing, climate change denialism, etc.

Hell, I even believed Bush and Blair's lies about Iraq's WMDs, yellowcake uranium, and links to al Qaeda. After people started loudly questioning their curious lack of results, I still figured that they would probably eventually find those WMDs buried somewhere. Still not overly suspicious of my government yet.

Then I started noticing the series of major Governmental lies, from the Iraqi WMDs, to the Anthrax attacks, to the lack of a legitimate 9/11 investigation, to Operation Fast and Furious, to the Wikileaks scandal, to Snowden and the NSA, to the IRS scandal, to the torture scandal and CIA secret prisons, to Hillary's War in Libya and the Benghazi scandal, to Syria/ISIS, to Victoria Nuland's Ukraine coup, etc. Unfortunately, those crazy-sounding, nasty secrets aren't just in my imagination. I wish they were.

Hell, Obama recently declared Venezuela a threat to US National Security, as if that makes ANY sense. Probably just another excuse to try to topple another government of an oil-rich state, just like in Iraq, Libya, and Syria. Iran? We're all about saving the future world from their future nukes, right? Surely it's just a coincidence that they yet another oil-rich nation is in our crosshairs, isn't it? The Ukraine? Nothing to do with the oil and natural gas pipelines going from Russia to Europe, right? Our Vice President's son being appointed to their biggest gas company's corporate board right after the coup is just a coincidence too. Afghanistan had nothing to do with pipelines either. Or resources - http://www.mining.com/1-trillion-mother ... ghanistan/

We wouldn't overthrow Governments just to steal their oil, would we? And your government wouldn't either, right? Well... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iran ... 7%C3%A9tat

Turns out that my Government doesn't even follow basic international law like the Geneva Conventions. They have no respect for the sovereignty of other nations, and "human rights" is often just used as another excuse to attack and overthrow another government. And there seems to be no accountability whatsoever. Only the whistleblowers get in trouble. Anyone high-ranking seems to be above the law. The last high-ranking person to get in any trouble, that I can think of, was General Petraeus. His crime? Leaking secret information. Same as the whistleblowers. That seems to be the only crime that gets punished anymore - Speaking the truth when they want to hide it. The award-winning journalist who outed Petraeus? Dead under mysterious circumstances while working on a big story about the CIA.

I used to believe that my government cared about things like democracy, liberty, justice, human rights, national sovereignty, and self-determination. Now I see that was mostly propaganda. Their actions clearly show what they really care about - power, resources, and geopolitics. But it's much, much harder to get the people to rally behind those causes, so they lie. Tell people what they want to hear, and they will usually accept it. Do as I am doing, and tell people things that they DON'T want to hear, and hope they don't try to kill the messenger.



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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby dsr » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:17 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:I used to believe that my government cared about things like democracy, liberty, justice, human rights, national sovereignty, and self-determination. Now I see that was mostly propaganda. Their actions clearly show what they really care about - power, resources, and geopolitics. But it's much, much harder to get the people to rally behind those causes, so they lie. Tell people what they want to hear, and they will usually accept it. Do as I am doing, and tell people things that they DON'T want to hear, and hope they don't try to kill the messenger.


I've no objection to people criticising the governmnent and looking out for lies etc. My problem I have with the way you do it is that you pick on so much rubbish - maintaining that a child's mock salute, three months after Hitler's election, is somehow significant; making out that the government destroyed a third tower because they thought it would make a two-plane conspiracy look better. If you spend half the time telling people this absolute nonsense, then they aren't going to believe you if about the other half either, even if it's 100% true. Be more discerning. Don't be the boy who cried wolf.
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:12 am

dsr wrote:
get louder at lambeau wrote:I used to believe that my government cared about things like democracy, liberty, justice, human rights, national sovereignty, and self-determination. Now I see that was mostly propaganda. Their actions clearly show what they really care about - power, resources, and geopolitics. But it's much, much harder to get the people to rally behind those causes, so they lie. Tell people what they want to hear, and they will usually accept it. Do as I am doing, and tell people things that they DON'T want to hear, and hope they don't try to kill the messenger.


I've no objection to people criticising the governmnent and looking out for lies etc. My problem I have with the way you do it is that you pick on so much rubbish - maintaining that a child's mock salute, three months after Hitler's election, is somehow significant; making out that the government destroyed a third tower because they thought it would make a two-plane conspiracy look better. If you spend half the time telling people this absolute nonsense, then they aren't going to believe you if about the other half either, even if it's 100% true. Be more discerning. Don't be the boy who cried wolf.


As to the Nazi salute, the ADULT is the one that is "somehow significant", dsr, as he was the King of England a few years later. To your country's credit, they kicked his fascist ass out, as they should have.

As to WTC7, sounds like you badly misunderstand what I said about that too. If you want to criticize what I ACTUALLY SAID about it, then fine. Instead, you just make $#!! up and then blame me for it. As they say in your country, "That's not cricket." I do NOT believe that WTC7 was destroyed to "make a two-plane conspiracy look better". In fact, I don't think I have ever claimed to know why it was destroyed.

What I know is that WTC7 was destroyed, and that the BBC reported that it had fallen well before it actually did fall , while it was still standing behind the reporter, (weird, no?) and then the official 9/11 Commission failed to even mention the building ONCE in their final report that serves as the official Government version of 9/11. (weird, no?) And a renowned demolitions expert said that it was definitely a perfectly executed, professional, controlled demolition, and he then later he died in an odd single car crash. (weird, no?)

I also know that there is an organization called Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth that say the official version is impossible and that the official investigation was BS. There is also a group called Pilots for 9/11 Truth that agrees about the official version being impossible for totally different reasons having to do with the airplanes. There is another group called 9/11 Press for Truth who raise their own issues with what happened, and plenty of other similar groups, like Military Officers for 9/11 Truth. It's not just me and some goofy Lochness Monster believers, as much as you might prefer to think that it is. The official story is a lie. Don't take my word for it, look into it for yourself.

Whatever the truth may be about 9/11, it's pretty clear that the Government version doesn't add up quite right. Just look up Marvin Bush. Odd that the acting President's little brother's company, (the Bush brother who no one ever mentions at all and who most Americans have never even heard of) was involved in "security systems" work on the WTC towers shortly before the attacks. Small world, huh? People who worked there talk about "unprecedented" power shutdowns in the weeks leading up to the attacks too.
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby dsr » Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:15 pm

You really have no idea how journalists work, do you. You think there is any chance at all that any government would say to a foreign or domestic journalist, "here's a plot that we're working on to kill several thousand of our own citizens, please don't tell anyone about it?"

Hard though it is for you to grasp, the BBC does make mistakes. In this case, either the BBC made a mistake, or the BBC and the world's press are sitting on the biggest news story in the world and not a single journalist wants to be the one to report it. I know which I prefer.

And back to the Prince of Wales, making a joke fascist salute does not make you a supporter of Hitler. Are there any Americans who ever said a nice word about Saddam Hussain? If so, are they traitors and fifth columnists who deserve to be run out of the country? I'll tell you again, and I'll keep it simple. Three months after his election, people generally didn't realise that Hitler was a monster. They didn't look at the evidence of the concentration camps, because there weren't any. They didn't look at the evidence of the war, because it hadn't happened. They did look at the evidence of the comedy salutes, which hadn't yet become obvious as symbols of evil; they did still carry swastikas, because the day of Hitler's election didn't instantly turn that good luck symbol into a symbol of hate.

Prince David / Prince of Wales / King Edward / Duke of Windsor was an appeaser. Not a fascist, any more than Halifax, Chamberlain, Joe Kennedy, or the rest were fascists. (Though I have my doubts about Joe Kennedy. To be charitable, he may have been motivated more by anti-British sentiments than pro-German.)
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:13 pm

There are British historians who might disagree with your opinion, dsr. You might be interested in this article from a couple weeks ago, written by Dr. Karina Urbach, Senior Research Fellow at the Institute of Historical Research, University of London.

Here's a blip -

The Soviet intelligence services were convinced of the Duke of Windsor’s treachery when war broke out. It is probable that they had an informer on his staff. In 1940 they reported that he was conducting negotiations with Hitler to form a new English government and conclude a peace with Germany contingent on a military alliance against the USSR.

Even more evidence of Windsor’s treachery was hidden in Spanish archives. Like his relative Coburg, the Duke of Windsor was anti-Semitic. In June 1940 Don Javier Bermejillo, a Spanish diplomat and old friend of Windsor – he had known him since the 1920s – reported a conversation he had had with the Duke to his superiors.

Bermejillo reported that the Duke of Windsor blamed “the Jews, the Reds and the Foreign Office for the war”. Windsor added that he would like to put Anthony Eden and other British politicians “up against a wall”. Bermejillo stated that Windsor had already made similar remarks about the Reds and the Jews to him long before he became King in 1936. In another conversation on June 25 1940 Bermejillo reported that Windsor stressed if one bombed England effectively this could bring peace. Bermejillo concluded that the Duke of Windsor seemed very much to hope that this would occur: “He wants peace at any price.” This report went to Franco and was then passed on to the Germans. The bombing of Britain started on 10 July.


Here's the whole article for those who are interested -
http://theconversation.com/former-king- ... veal-42666
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:26 pm

dsr wrote:You really have no idea how journalists work, do you. You think there is any chance at all that any government would say to a foreign or domestic journalist, "here's a plot that we're working on to kill several thousand of our own citizens, please don't tell anyone about it?"

Hard though it is for you to grasp, the BBC does make mistakes. In this case, either the BBC made a mistake, or the BBC and the world's press are sitting on the biggest news story in the world and not a single journalist wants to be the one to report it. I know which I prefer.


The BBC made the mistake of saying that a building that was standing had collapsed. It hadn't. It hadn't started to collapse either. The collapse, from beginning to end, happened in less than 10 seconds, quite a while later. CNN also reported that it had collapsed, "or was about collapse", well before it did. Kinda odd, to say the least. Then after it actually did collapse, no one talked about it anymore. Not the press, not even the 9/11 Commission's official report. The main report on the attacks failed to mention that building at all. You don't think that's weird?

As to "The world's press sitting on the biggest news story in the world and not a single journalist wants to be the one to report it", here's an example of something similar happening in the US, also related to 9/11. A HUGE story, that got reported, then the report disappeared and apparently "not a single journalist wanted to be the one to report it" after the story disappeared. It happened. In the real world. Sounds crazy, I know, but there is a perfect example of it.



Why wasn't that reported, after the original report that disappeared? No more coverage from Fox, no coverage AT ALL from anyone else. On a VERY big 9/11-related story. Similar to the premature WTC7 report, it just went away, and apparently "not a single journalist wanted to be the one to report it" for some reason.
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby raptorman » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:49 am

get louder at lambeau wrote:The BBC made the mistake of saying that a building that was standing had collapsed. It hadn't. It hadn't started to collapse either. The collapse, from beginning to end, happened in less than 10 seconds, quite a while later. CNN also reported that it had collapsed, "or was about collapse", well before it did. Kinda odd, to say the least. Then after it actually did collapse, no one talked about it anymore. Not the press, not even the 9/11 Commission's official report. The main report on the attacks failed to mention that building at all. You don't think that's weird?

As to "The world's press sitting on the biggest news story in the world and not a single journalist wants to be the one to report it", here's an example of something similar happening in the US, also related to 9/11. A HUGE story, that got reported, then the report disappeared and apparently "not a single journalist wanted to be the one to report it" after the story disappeared. It happened. In the real world. Sounds crazy, I know, but there is a perfect example of it.

Why wasn't that reported, after the original report that disappeared? No more coverage from Fox, no coverage AT ALL from anyone else. On a VERY big 9/11-related story. Similar to the premature WTC7 report, it just went away, and apparently "not a single journalist wanted to be the one to report it" for some reason.

Not what I call a real "feel good" story. Basically the Israelis were spying on Arabs in the US and knew what they were going to do. Meanwhile our own intelligence gathering groups dropped the ball. So if I got that right, the Israelis did a better job of protecting the US than the US did. Except for the part they failed to tell us.
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:05 pm

raptorman wrote:Not what I call a real "feel good" story. Basically the Israelis were spying on Arabs in the US and knew what they were going to do. Meanwhile our own intelligence gathering groups dropped the ball. So if I got that right, the Israelis did a better job of protecting the US than the US did. Except for the part they failed to tell us.


That, or the Israelis were just plain involved. They sure didn't help stop it, and arguably nobody benefited more from the results of the 9/11 attacks than Israel, who got a proxy war that destroyed their enemy neighboring state using the largest war machine ever assembled. Saddam is dead, Iraq is destabilized and weak, and no Israeli soldiers even had to die to accomplish it. No pushback from the international community for attacking another country militarily either. No retaliatory strikes from the Arab/Muslim world towards Israel. No Israeli blood or treasure lost at all. Near perfect results from the Israeli Government's point of view.

Even Netanyahu himself has mentioned how beneficial the attacks were to Israel, saying -

"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."

http://www.haaretz.com/beta/report-neta ... l-1.244044

Israel inarguably got better results in Iraq thru the 9/11 attacks happening than they ever could have gotten attacking Iraq on their own. Maybe they just got really, really lucky.

The WTC's new leaseholder, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's close personal friend Larry Silverstein, got BILLIONS in insurance money on a policy that he just took out months before too. He and his two adult children who normally would have been in the buildings just weren't there that morning. All three of them luckily/improbably escaped harm, and Larry went from being a multi-millionaire to being a full fledged billionaire because of the attacks. Maybe he just got really, really lucky too. Maybe his close link to the Israeli PM is just a coincidence.

People act like it's totally crazy to think that Israel would do something like that, but it actually wouldn't even be the first time that the Israeli government bombed US interests and tried to make it look like Arab terrorists did it to try to influence American policy in the Middle East. They tried the same thing against us in the 1950s with Operation Susannah, AKA "The Lavon Affair" and got busted doing it. The Israeli Government has admitted to this.



Operation Susannah was run by Israeli Military Intelligence, and was intended to be blamed on Egyptians. It used "sayanim" to carry out the attacks. What are "sayanim"? - http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Sayanim

A look back on Operation Susannah from an Israeli newspaper - http://www.haaretz.com/beta/mi-figures- ... ter-1.4385
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:10 pm

For anyone still thinking that it's crazy to think that the Government is lying about 9/11, right now there are Congressmen trying to get the Gov to release 28 pages of the 2002 US Senate Joint Inquiry Report on 9/11 that then President Bush stamped as "Top Secret". It's 13 years later, with a Democrat in office, we still aren't allowed to know the truth about 9/11.

Look what Congressmen who read the pages have said -

President George W. Bush slapped a “top secret” stamp on those pages. Senators and congressmen who have seen the redacted 28 pages say they implicate one or more governments in the 9/11 attacks.

Rep. Steven Lynch (D-MA) says that they show 9/11 was perpetrated in collaboration with “other governments” and “government agencies.”

Rep. Walter Jones (R-NC) says: “If the 9/11 hijackers had outside help – particularly from one or more foreign governments – the press and the public have a right to know what our government has or has not done to bring justice to the perpetrators.”

Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) says: “I went into the soundproof, secret room here in Congress and read those 28 pages. And it was a really disturbing event for me to read those. I had to stop every two or three pages and rearrange my perception of history. And it’s that fundamental — those 28 pages.... It certainly changes your view of the Middle East... We need to declassify those 28 pages.... the American people deserve to know what happened and what led up to 9/11 so that we can prevent the next one.


http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/10/1 ... e-mideast/
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Re: The Rise Of Fascism

Postby get louder at lambeau » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Here's one for you, raptor, being that you are a pilot in Florida, this should be right up your alley.

A look into the Venice, FL flight schools that lead terrorist Hohammed Atta went to before the attacks leads to apparent CIA connections. Jeb Bush and Catherine Harris both make an appearance, along with figures from the Iran/Contra scandal and the similar Mena, Arkansas based Nicaragua CIA gun and drug-running scandal.

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