Corruption In America

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Re: Corruption In America

Postby get louder at lambeau » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:19 am

We're number twenty! We're number twenty!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-2 ... edom-index
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby Pckfn23 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:34 pm

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Re: Corruption In America

Postby BF004 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:31 pm

get louder at lambeau wrote:We're number twenty! We're number twenty!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-2 ... edom-index


Its amazing how one look into freedoms, of all types, and correlations for better societies on such a consistent basis doesn't drive more people Libertarian. Instead people choose to feel the Bern for promises of free stuff and just saying you hate rich people and successful industries.
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby Pckfn23 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:33 pm

Instead people choose to feel the Bern for promises of free stuff and just saying you hate rich people and successful industries.


Do you have evidence that these people exist in significant numbers?
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby BF004 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:38 pm

Pckfn23 wrote:
Instead people choose to feel the Bern for promises of free stuff and just saying you hate rich people and successful industries.


Do you have evidence that these people exist in significant numbers?


Yes, people who supports Bernie Sanders would be one of these people. :?

Its a gross generalization and simplification, but if you want to get into one your 8 page debates on semantics, you're barking up the wrong tree.
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby Pckfn23 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:44 pm

BF004 wrote:
Pckfn23 wrote:
Instead people choose to feel the Bern for promises of free stuff and just saying you hate rich people and successful industries.


Do you have evidence that these people exist in significant numbers?


Yes, people who supports Bernie Sanders would be one of these people. :?

Its a gross generalization and simplification


So you don't have any evidence those people actually exist in significant numbers? You seem to think that there are a significant amount of people who simply want a free ride from the goernment, hate the rich simply because they are rich, and hate successful businesses simply because they are successful. I would like see any evidence of this and not "gross generalizations and simplifications," as you say.
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby BF004 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:50 pm

Trudge wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:
It isn't hard to see why Sanders is incredibly popular and draws huge crowds. No politician tells it like it is better than he does.


Trump.


I have to disagree somewhat here with you. Trump says quite a bit, the one thing I do like about him is he's got no filter. The knock that he has that Bernie doesn't when talking about this is he's a bit misguided and probably ignorant of the inner workings of what goes on in Congress. Bernie knows, he's got the track record of voting with the public opinion and he's been calling it out for a while now.


K, a Trump, Bernie debate would be pretty damned fun to watch.
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby Waldo » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:11 pm

BF004 wrote:Instead people choose to feel the Bern for promises of free stuff and just saying you hate rich people and successful industries.


Promises of free stuff. Free stuff that is standard in every other industrialized country.

Parental leave. Universal health care. Basic College. Expanded Social Security. Higher minimum wage.

Pretty basic stuff. The kind of things people elsewhere laugh at the backwards US about.

Take the profit out of healthcare, make it universal, and the cost drops dramatically. Profiting from non-elective healthcare is morally wrong anyway. For-profit health insurance is utterly bankrupt morally. Add a strong public option to Obamacare and eliminate the employer mandate and the employer tax breaks. Buh bye for profit healthcare. Pay for it with the tax break elimination.

Our strongest consumers (the core engine of the US economy) are saddled with the worst kind of debt (young 20 somethings and college debt). At the national level a basic cost college education is a drop in the bucket $$-wise, and it puts money straight in the hands of our most powerful economic engine in a multiplicative way (20-something is the most innovative age, all the opportunity lost, mired in debt). Easily paid for with a very modest tax hike. Or something like taxes on legal weed.

Our fertility rate is well below the replacement rate (immigration is the only solution), without population growth economic growth stagnates. The long term health of all social programs depends on population growth. The group hurt most by current culture is the middle class, it is the most fragile in the regards of ability to raise children. Paid parental won't solve the problems, but it will help. Again, in the grand scheme of things, something like this is dirt cheap $$-wise and easily paid for, subsidize stock market earnings slightly less (lower than standard tax rate = subsidy aka welfare).

Raising the minimum wage to the poverty line for a full time employee is a no brainer. If any full time employee is eligible for any sort of welfare benefit (incl food stamps), taxpayers are subsidizing (aka giving welfare) to that employees employer. Tax savings could be used to pay for parental leave as well.

Eliminate the social security tax cap. Use the massive windfall to raise benefits for all.
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby Waldo » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:19 pm

Hilariously BF004, "people who want free stuff" make up virtually none of Bernies support. Well educated upper middle class white people are the base of Bernie's support. Poor people support R's (if white) or Hillary (if non-white).

The upper middle class are a key demographic; the one group that actually did succeed largely through hard work (getting rich is more of a born with it or dumb luck thing). The upper middle class actually knows how to become successful and how to make that path easier for others. The upper middle class also has the strongest concentration of intelligence and education among all demographics.

Bernie is out raising and has a larger support base than any single R. Even the great Obama couldn't hang with Bernie's ability to raise $$ through small donations, and his ability was light years ahead of anyone that ever came before him in politics. :D

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -5565.html
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby Waldo » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:32 pm

I don't think people fully grasp the scam that Trump is running.

Trump plays the rich persons game. That is, Trump campain offices are rented from Trump. Trump is ferried around by Trump. Donations made to Trump the nonprofit candidate are used to pay Trump the for-profit service provider, services which are also, lol, tax deductible.

Its a great scam.

Of course though nothing would be more profitable for Trump than Trump's tax plan.
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby RodgePodge » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:41 pm

Waldo wrote:
BF004 wrote:Instead people choose to feel the Bern for promises of free stuff and just saying you hate rich people and successful industries.


Promises of free stuff. Free stuff that is standard in every other industrialized country.


So?

Parental leave. Universal health care. Basic College. Expanded Social Security. Higher minimum wage.

Pretty basic stuff. The kind of things people elsewhere laugh at the backwards US about.


Blah blah progressivism.

Take the profit out of healthcare, make it universal, and the cost drops dramatically.


Ah yes, we all know how amazing the government is at cutting costs.

Profiting from non-elective healthcare is morally wrong anyway.


lol. Quite the irony of a progressive socialist talking about morality.

For-profit health insurance is utterly bankrupt morally.


uh huh.

Pay for it with the tax break elimination.


Yeah just raise taxes and we can pay for everything!

Our strongest consumers (the core engine of the US economy) are saddled with the worst kind of debt (young 20 somethings and college debt). At the national level a basic cost college education is a drop in the bucket $$-wise, and it puts money straight in the hands of our most powerful economic engine in a multiplicative way (20-something is the most innovative age, all the opportunity lost, mired in debt). Easily paid for with a very modest tax hike. Or something like taxes on legal weed.


This is mind boggling. Acting like making college free for everyone in the US would be a drop in the bucket :lol: Paying for it with marijuana taxes? :lol: This is fantasy land. Not to mention the inflation of education and the corresponding worthlessness of degrees, which is already happening due to easy federally backed money so that any jerkoff can get a bachelors in feminist dance theory.

Our fertility rate is well below the replacement rate


And yet you support abortion I'm sure and contraception. What we really need is a return to family values and large nuclear families.

(immigration is the only solution),


LOL. That's what all you progressives say. And this is why you progressives aka socialists aka communists want to destroy Western civilization...because your massive social programs can't be supported without mass immigration from third world crapholes.

The long term health of all social programs depends on population growth.


ha, called it. And the long term health of Western civilization depends on not importing millions of third worlders and breeding civilization out of existence.

Raising the minimum wage to the poverty line for a full time employee is a no brainer.


lolol. What is inflation? What are passed on costs? What is loss of jobs? What is less entry level jobs?

Use the massive windfall to raise benefits for all.


Free stuff for everyone!
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby RodgePodge » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:42 pm

Waldo wrote:Hilariously BF004, "people who want free stuff" make up virtually none of Bernies support. Well educated upper middle class white people are the base of Bernie's support. Poor people support R's (if white) or Hillary (if non-white).

The upper middle class are a key demographic; the one group that actually did succeed largely through hard work (getting rich is more of a born with it or dumb luck thing). The upper middle class actually knows how to become successful and how to make that path easier for others. The upper middle class also has the strongest concentration of intelligence and education among all demographics.

Bernie is out raising and has a larger support base than any single R. Even the great Obama couldn't hang with Bernie's ability to raise $$ through small donations, and his ability was light years ahead of anyone that ever came before him in politics. :D

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -5565.html


Bernie is going nowhere. No one cares about a pathetic socialist like him. Hillary will destroy him. And if she doesn't, Trump, or whoever the nominee is, will.
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby Trudge » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:32 am

RodgePodge wrote:
Waldo wrote:Hilariously BF004, "people who want free stuff" make up virtually none of Bernies support. Well educated upper middle class white people are the base of Bernie's support. Poor people support R's (if white) or Hillary (if non-white).

The upper middle class are a key demographic; the one group that actually did succeed largely through hard work (getting rich is more of a born with it or dumb luck thing). The upper middle class actually knows how to become successful and how to make that path easier for others. The upper middle class also has the strongest concentration of intelligence and education among all demographics.

Bernie is out raising and has a larger support base than any single R. Even the great Obama couldn't hang with Bernie's ability to raise $$ through small donations, and his ability was light years ahead of anyone that ever came before him in politics. :D

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -5565.html


Bernie is going nowhere. No one cares about a pathetic socialist like him. Hillary will destroy him. And if she doesn't, Trump, or whoever the nominee is, will.


Uh...drawing 20,000+ people everywhere he goes would say otherwise that people actually do care about Bernie. Can you name one thing other than "giving out free stuff" he wants to do?
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby Waldo » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:45 pm

Trudge wrote:
RodgePodge wrote:
Waldo wrote:Hilariously BF004, "people who want free stuff" make up virtually none of Bernies support. Well educated upper middle class white people are the base of Bernie's support. Poor people support R's (if white) or Hillary (if non-white).

The upper middle class are a key demographic; the one group that actually did succeed largely through hard work (getting rich is more of a born with it or dumb luck thing). The upper middle class actually knows how to become successful and how to make that path easier for others. The upper middle class also has the strongest concentration of intelligence and education among all demographics.

Bernie is out raising and has a larger support base than any single R. Even the great Obama couldn't hang with Bernie's ability to raise $$ through small donations, and his ability was light years ahead of anyone that ever came before him in politics. :D

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -5565.html


Bernie is going nowhere. No one cares about a pathetic socialist like him. Hillary will destroy him. And if she doesn't, Trump, or whoever the nominee is, will.


Uh...drawing 20,000+ people everywhere he goes would say otherwise that people actually do care about Bernie. Can you name one thing other than "giving out free stuff" he wants to do?


We're back to skewed polls too apparently...

I don't disagree that Hillary will destroy him though. That's fine. He did his job, which was to cause Hillary to track left, opening Hillary and all D's eye's (and really all of America) as to the massive base of support in the electorate that progressive ideas have. This was one of the main reasons D's were trying to get Warren to run.

Without a serious candidate on her left flank, Hillary would track right, just assuming that the voiceless left would support her over any R, in an attempt to capture R's disgusted by the rightward track of their party (a not insignificant number of people, heck including 2 D candidates (Chafee and Webb, both of whom were once R's)). The left has not had an actual serious voice in US politics in a long time, their support just assumed for the D's since the Reagan era, leaving D candidates free to essentially become moderate Republicans as the R's track ever increasingly rightward (Bill was a moderate Republican, a D in name only, Kerry was a moderate Republican, Obama is a centrist, Hillary was a centrist with a real threat to track right a la her husband).
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Re: Corruption In America

Postby Waldo » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:02 pm

RodgePodge wrote:
Waldo wrote:Our fertility rate is well below the replacement rate


And yet you support abortion I'm sure and contraception. What we really need is a return to family values and large nuclear families.


Lol, our culture long ago rejected this. "Family values" is rhetorical nonsense with no real separate and distinct core values.

Our automobile based culture killed the large nuclear family. The reality is that the logistics of having a family with more than 3 kids is quite difficult, especially with a 2 earner family. To get around as a family you either need an unusually large (and expensive) vehicle or take multiple vehicles. Get back to me when you are making the "should we have another" decision when you've already got 3. :D

The war on sex for fun was lost long, long ago culturally; just a few remaining strict god people running the insurgency, but who also have a lot of political power. Western culture is totally over the war.

I wonder why the flipside, fertility treatment, isn't part of the whole abortion/contraception debate on the right. If a fertilzed embryo is a person, IVF pretty much has to be banned. At what point is "taking it out of gods hands" a problem, when you start tracking the precise time of highest likelihood, taking pills to prompt multiple egg released, IUI, IVF, or to the extreme, ICSI. All of the ethical problems god people have with abortion and contraception are there for fertility treatment. But instead of telling people you can't kill babies or prevent "god's will", you are telling them you can't have babies. Oh the dilemma.

Trying to force culture toward puritanism via government; who again is a fan of big government and personal freedom? Only the libertarian right can reconcile this central ideological conflict on the right, culturally favoring big government and lack of freedom (on pretty much every cultural issue or quasi cultural issue) while economically and rhetorically claiming to be against big government and regulations.
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