Incompetent Democrats

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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby Papa John » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:48 pm

dirty sanchez wrote:
Papa John wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:
Trudge wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:
Trudge wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:Sanders' policies are only popular with people under 30 living in their parents' basement or in college.


Really weird that my parents basement is a 2 story townhome with a two car garage. Glad they let me take my BMW to work every day at least. Happy you call me under 30 at least, take that as a compliment.


Your parents wouldnt be so wealthy that you could inhabit such a basement if Sanders' policies were reality over the past several decades. The ironic thing is, if you like Sanders you should feel guilty of all your white male privelege and voluntarily pay a great deal more taxes voluntarily due to said guilt.


Nope. I still worked for what I had, sorry I don't fit your stereotype. I just realize that we as a whole working together will raise everyone's quality of life rather than beat everyone else down who didn't work "as hard". It goes way farther than just people paying taxes. Seem jealous of my BMW reference though. I'll still take the under 30 as a compliment.

At least Sanders has been fighting for the same thing for the past 25+ years. His message has been the same, only the numbers have changed against his warning. Keep getting hung up on labels, exactly why I don't support one party over another. You can keep supporting some jackhole that I never liked YEARS before he even ran for president because he had an R by his name on the ballot, I wont. What a joke he is.




Yes, Sanders has been consistent. Consistently wrong, but consistent and has principles. That is more than can be said about most politicians. And no, I'm not a Republican and don't blindly support Republicans.


Eh, didn't I just read about his involvement in some kind of crony money laundering scheme? Him and his wife just lawyer-ed up if I'm not mistaken.
Looks like your taxes will be going up, Papa.

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Haha, funny you should bring this up. I'm in the process of moving back to SoCal! It's gonna be great to break free from SF cuck culture.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby Papa John » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:51 pm

Trudge wrote:
Papa John wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:
Trudge wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:
Trudge wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:Sanders' policies are only popular with people under 30 living in their parents' basement or in college.


Really weird that my parents basement is a 2 story townhome with a two car garage. Glad they let me take my BMW to work every day at least. Happy you call me under 30 at least, take that as a compliment.


Your parents wouldnt be so wealthy that you could inhabit such a basement if Sanders' policies were reality over the past several decades. The ironic thing is, if you like Sanders you should feel guilty of all your white male privelege and voluntarily pay a great deal more taxes voluntarily due to said guilt.


Nope. I still worked for what I had, sorry I don't fit your stereotype. I just realize that we as a whole working together will raise everyone's quality of life rather than beat everyone else down who didn't work "as hard". It goes way farther than just people paying taxes. Seem jealous of my BMW reference though. I'll still take the under 30 as a compliment.

At least Sanders has been fighting for the same thing for the past 25+ years. His message has been the same, only the numbers have changed against his warning. Keep getting hung up on labels, exactly why I don't support one party over another. You can keep supporting some jackhole that I never liked YEARS before he even ran for president because he had an R by his name on the ballot, I wont. What a joke he is.




Yes, Sanders has been consistent. Consistently wrong, but consistent and has principles. That is more than can be said about most politicians. And no, I'm not a Republican and don't blindly support Republicans.


Eh, didn't I just read about his involvement in some kind of crony money laundering scheme? Him and his wife just lawyer-ed up if I'm not mistaken.


His wife did. Not a fan of it to be honest. Has to do with her involvement with the University. Waiting for details.


My understanding is that his wife was the initial perpetrator and he tried to use his power as an elected official to cover her ass. I'm sure most politicians have similar kinds of dirty laundry, but pretty surprising for a guy who was so outspoken against cronyism.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby BF004 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:45 pm

http://nationalpost.com/news/toronto/to ... 5e2b21bf49

I understand this is Canada, but same difference. Such a good idea to let people like this run health insurance for 400 million people, will totally cut down costs. :roll:
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby Charon21 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:15 pm

BF004 wrote:http://nationalpost.com/news/toronto/toronto-tears-down-elderly-mans-550-staircase-promises-to-build-new-ones-for-10000/wcm/fe0c3bff-788d-4cd8-b8ba-075e2b21bf49

I understand this is Canada, but same difference. Such a good idea to let people like this run health insurance for 400 million people, will totally cut down costs. :roll:


> Complaining about some old guy's staircase instead of untold |D E A T H S| in our system (all single-payer nations combine for 0 due to a lack of coverage).

'Glad you have your priorities straight. :|

BTW, the government actually wastes more money under the US system than they would if they switched.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby texas » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:29 pm

BF004 wrote:http://nationalpost.com/news/toronto/toronto-tears-down-elderly-mans-550-staircase-promises-to-build-new-ones-for-10000/wcm/fe0c3bff-788d-4cd8-b8ba-075e2b21bf49

I understand this is Canada, but same difference. Such a good idea to let people like this run health insurance for 400 million people, will totally cut down costs. :roll:


:lol: Canada is such a laughingstock. Trudeau is like a cross between Merkel and Obama and like 10x worse. Supercuck.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby BF004 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:57 am

Charon21 wrote:
BF004 wrote:http://nationalpost.com/news/toronto/toronto-tears-down-elderly-mans-550-staircase-promises-to-build-new-ones-for-10000/wcm/fe0c3bff-788d-4cd8-b8ba-075e2b21bf49

I understand this is Canada, but same difference. Such a good idea to let people like this run health insurance for 400 million people, will totally cut down costs. :roll:


> Complaining about some old guy's staircase instead of untold |D E A T H S| in our system (all single-payer nations combine for 0 due to a lack of coverage).

'Glad you have your priorities straight. :|

BTW, the government actually wastes more money under the US system than they would if they switched.

I would say I have my priorities right. Healthcare in the US is about the most regulated thing there is which has led to the high costs the last half a century making insurance and healthcare unaffordable. Forgive me for not being excited about giving control of healthcare for myself and others to the most financially inefficient body on the planet, either damaging our economy or putting healthcare out of reach for even more.

Do you trust Trump, McConnell and Ryan to make all these decisions for you?

Must be so easy to be a liberal, just pretend like you have a bigger heart and make condescending remarks to justify policies that do more harm than good.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby Charon21 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:56 am

BF004 wrote:I would say I have my priorities right. Healthcare in the US is about the most regulated thing there is which has led to the high costs the last half a century making insurance and healthcare unaffordable. Forgive me for not being excited about giving control of healthcare for myself and others to the most financially inefficient body on the planet, either damaging our economy or putting healthcare out of reach for even more.


And yet, Canada does it more cheaply than us and nobody dies or goes bankrupt (#1 cause in USA) due to a lack of coverage. It just does not happen. This is not theory, it's in practice in over half the world.

Do you trust Trump, McConnell and Ryan to make all these decisions for you?


Err, actually, they already are, and doing so on behalf of the industry -- that's the whole problem!!

There are no decisions for them to make under single-payer: my tax-dollars took care of it already.

Must be so easy to be a liberal, just pretend like you have a bigger heart and make condescending remarks to justify policies that do more harm than good.


LOL! This is hilarious...


I do not give a damn about intent. I'm a bottom-line kind of guy and care about cold, hard facts. You may be a nicer guy than me, but my policies are better and save more lives. Your better intent means nothing to the roughly 20+ million who will lose coverage following repeal (Obamacare is crap but it's better than a free-market system).

It's about brains, not heart.

Also, I'm not a "liberal;" I'm a Leftist. They are not the same thing, not anymore.

And, once again, for-profit healthcare actually costs us *more* money than if the state were to run it! https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/07/14 ... -per-year/
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby Pugger » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:56 am

Charon21 wrote:
BF004 wrote:I would say I have my priorities right. Healthcare in the US is about the most regulated thing there is which has led to the high costs the last half a century making insurance and healthcare unaffordable. Forgive me for not being excited about giving control of healthcare for myself and others to the most financially inefficient body on the planet, either damaging our economy or putting healthcare out of reach for even more.


And yet, Canada does it more cheaply than us and nobody dies or goes bankrupt (#1 cause in USA) due to a lack of coverage. It just does not happen. This is not theory, it's in practice in over half the world.

Do you trust Trump, McConnell and Ryan to make all these decisions for you?


Err, actually, they already are, and doing so on behalf of the industry -- that's the whole problem!!

There are no decisions for them to make under single-payer: my tax-dollars took care of it already.

Must be so easy to be a liberal, just pretend like you have a bigger heart and make condescending remarks to justify policies that do more harm than good.


LOL! This is hilarious...


I do not give a damn about intent. I'm a bottom-line kind of guy and care about cold, hard facts. You may be a nicer guy than me, but my policies are better and save more lives. Your better intent means nothing to the roughly 20+ million who will lose coverage following repeal (Obamacare is crap but it's better than a free-market system).

It's about brains, not heart.

Also, I'm not a "liberal;" I'm a Leftist. They are not the same thing, not anymore.

And, once again, for-profit healthcare actually costs us *more* money than if the state were to run it! https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/07/14 ... -per-year/


The way the government screws up almost everything it touches I don't know if I want some bureaucrat in DC making health care decisions for me.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby Charon21 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:51 pm

Pugger wrote:The way the government screws up almost everything it touches I don't know if I want some bureaucrat in DC making health care decisions for me.


:lol: ... this idea is literally just flat-out false. Think-tanks funded by corporate oligarchs want you to believe that so they can get rid of consumer protections and screw you over more for an extra buck.

Medicare has better reviews than any private healthcare provider AND is more cost-efficient!
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby wallyuwl » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:34 pm

A good article that puts real numbers to what I've been saying... private plans and patients subsidize doctors (and drug companies, device companies, etc.) for the cost controls put on them by the government when treating Medicaid and Medicare patients. That is, for providers that still accept Medicaid and Medicare.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes ... 5d77e03ca7

So those "savings" from govt. programs? They aren't a real thing that could be sustained under something like single payer.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby raptorman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:35 am

Charon21 wrote:
Pugger wrote:The way the government screws up almost everything it touches I don't know if I want some bureaucrat in DC making health care decisions for me.


:lol: ... this idea is literally just flat-out false. Think-tanks funded by corporate oligarchs want you to believe that so they can get rid of consumer protections and screw you over more for an extra buck.

Medicare has better reviews than any private healthcare provider AND is more cost-efficient!

The only decision the feds make on medicare is what they pay.
The government has never had a power it did not abuse.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby Mackie2001 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:39 am

raptorman wrote:
Charon21 wrote:
Pugger wrote:The way the government screws up almost everything it touches I don't know if I want some bureaucrat in DC making health care decisions for me.


:lol: ... this idea is literally just flat-out false. Think-tanks funded by corporate oligarchs want you to believe that so they can get rid of consumer protections and screw you over more for an extra buck.

Medicare has better reviews than any private healthcare provider AND is more cost-efficient!

The only decision the feds make on medicare is what they pay.


I don't know if that's the case. Obama was taking money from Medicare and used in the ACA. He justified it by saying they would improve efficiency and reduce fraud in medicare.

After paying for Medicare my entire working life and never using it until my retirement, they're taking money out of my retirement income, plus, I have to buy supplements from insurance companies to help defray the cost of drugs and other so-called benefits under medicare. I never had to pay a nickle when I worked for a major international US corporation.

Beware the promises of government .Look at all they've done for our veterans.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby yoop » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:30 pm

Mackie2001 wrote:
raptorman wrote:
Charon21 wrote:
Pugger wrote:The way the government screws up almost everything it touches I don't know if I want some bureaucrat in DC making health care decisions for me.


:lol: ... this idea is literally just flat-out false. Think-tanks funded by corporate oligarchs want you to believe that so they can get rid of consumer protections and screw you over more for an extra buck.

Medicare has better reviews than any private healthcare provider AND is more cost-efficient!

The only decision the feds make on medicare is what they pay.


I don't know if that's the case. Obama was taking money from Medicare and used in the ACA. He justified it by saying they would improve efficiency and reduce fraud in medicare.

After paying for Medicare my entire working life and never using it until my retirement, they're taking money out of my retirement income, plus, I have to buy supplements from insurance companies to help defray the cost of drugs and other so-called benefits under medicare. I never had to pay a nickle when I worked for a major international US corporation.

Beware the promises of government .Look at all they've done for our veterans.


If your like most American workers you likely had no idea what Insurance was costing you, and if single you where paying the same amount as a family of 5, this drove up healthcare cost for everyone, I watched my insurance increases throughout the 90's, it doubled in that 10 to 12 year span, each year I got a raise, and 70% of it went to increased Insurance premiums.

Obviously much of those premium jumps where needed to cover cost of uninsured people, but it was also a booming business for the med field, we've all seen the profit margins, and big CEO christmas bonus paid out to Insur. Hospital, and Pharma.

lis before medicare sets a fair market price shelf for med service, yet we need gap insurance to cover over charging for med service.

I disagree with others, the med industry is very poorly regulated, and the 20% increase above what medicare will pay is proof of that, the industry is broken, Hospitals have no limits on what they can charge, same with Pharma, and Insurance sets the prices accordingly with there profit line included.

the people will always be paying to support the profit line of these industry's, healthcare for profit will always be more concerned with that then the welfare of the people, that is simply how this stuff works.

as long as healthcare is looked at as a privilege versus a right nothing will change, not that I agree so much with people getting free healthcare, most of us have paid for it plenty all our lives, lis it wasn't working well prior to ACA either, and uninsured people will always drive up the premiums for the rest of us.

thats why those that make more need to pay more then those that don't to offset the profit margine of the Industry, the most sick, and the poor, theres no way around this short of cutting aid to so many people.
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby BF004 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:45 pm

Big CEO Christmas bonus driving up healthcare costs?

The CEO of UHG, the largest insurer in America, had a 14.5 million dollar salary, and surely made quite a bit more from the growth of stock, UHG stock has nearly quadrupled since like 2008.

Given UHG insures about 80 million people world wide, that is roughly $0.015 or 1.5 cents a month goes to his salary of premiums. Literately not even pennies in a bucket, penny.

Hating a few rich people wouldn't change a thing for premium costs. Just like targeting the richest of the rich wouldn't even change anything for tax purposes. Just doesn't make sense to me to try to bring anyone down out of spite or envy, we should try to be lifting people up.



And as for healthcare for profit, yes, I am a large believe that the strive for profits is what drives people and companies to make the unbelievable breakthroughs in medical technology and pharmaceuticals. Without the promise of large financial gain, big pharma would no be doling out billions in research every year if that had to share their recipe with generic brands and we simply would not have the technology we have today without it. And yes, it is unbelievably expense to keep up with the tech and replace hundred dollar machines with million dollar machines every other year to provide the best care possible.

Now don't get me wrong, SOOOOOO much fat can be cut out of the process, but in my most honest opinion, it has been the government over-meddling in health care that is most responsible for the health care costs today. They keep doing dumb $#!!, then try to Band-Aid all the unintended consequences, then Band-Aid that, then Band-Aid that till it doesn't work anymore. Then they create something stupid with Obamacare, one of the most inefficient government programs ever and the largest tax increase in history, and Republicans don't have the stones to repeal it because of the headline '10,000,000 people could lose their insurance'. We could have taken the money setting up the stupid exchanges and given every uninsured person in this country a check to get health insurance and have 0 uninsured. Instead they be stupid, spend as much money as they can making as big a power grab as they can, waste so much in bureaucratic worthlessness and only insure about half the uninsured. Its just a terrible program and everyone is too afraid to do anything about it.

Now I am not terribly opposed to single payer/some type of universal healthcare, just think Obamacare is one of the worst pieces of legislation ever written. But I'd want the gov't to play as little a role as humanly possible. Like provide stop loss/ cover anything over a set OOPM, then do pretty much nothing else other than ensure a few fair practices/monopoly/oligopoly instances and let people get supplemental insurance through private and public bodies.

Totally rambled there and don't have time to proofread :P
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Re: Incompetent Democrats

Postby yoop » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:06 pm

BF004 wrote:Big CEO Christmas bonus driving up healthcare costs?

The CEO of UHG, the largest insurer in America, had a 14.5 million dollar salary, and surely made quite a bit more from the growth of stock, UHG stock has nearly quadrupled since like 2008.

Given UHG insures about 80 million people world wide, that is roughly $0.015 or 1.5 cents a month goes to his salary of premiums. Literately not even pennies in a bucket, penny.

Hating a few rich people wouldn't change a thing for premium costs. Just like targeting the richest of the rich wouldn't even change anything for tax purposes. Just doesn't make sense to me to try to bring anyone down out of spite or envy, we should try to be lifting people up.


when stock quadruples, then people that hold that stock make money, right? showing what the top ceo makes is a drop in the bucket compared to what the rst of the stock holders make.

hospitals show gross profits of well over 20% (some) after paying stock holders, board members, and CEO's there net is brought down to acceptable margins of 8 to 12%, thats 8% of profit dolled out to the rich people that hold that stock, thats profit gouging and it comes at the cost of it's patients.

am I wrong?

obviously your more informed then I concerning all this, specially so concerning ACA, your right it does seem to be a stepping stone to some sort of single payer, or possible a universal program, mostly I want to point out that pre ACA was not working as well as most seem to think, thats why we ended up with ACA, Obama, even Hillary, and a few republicans new some sort of change was over due.
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