Mueller FBI Probe

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How does Trump's first term end?

Poll runs till Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:44 am

Finishes term, wins reelection (Do not select another option)
5
63%
Finishes term, loses reelection (Do not select another option)
0
No votes
Finishes term, forgoes reelection (Do not select another option)
1
13%
Does not finish term (Please select one more option from below)
1
13%
Removed through office by Impeachment
0
No votes
Tenders resignation
1
13%
Cabinet invokes 25th Amendment
0
No votes
Dies of natural/health-related causes
0
No votes
Assassinated in office
0
No votes
No vote/other (please specify in a post)/forfeited -- reveal poll results
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 8

Mueller FBI Probe

Postby Charon21 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:58 pm

Here's the thread for it. :munch

Notable developments so far --

:arrow: Manafort busted, settles MASSIVE bail: https://www.justice.gov/sco ; https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/ ... ion-271762 :shock:
:arrow: Trump campaign adviser George Papadopolous charged, takes plea-deal: https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download
:arrow: Kushner questioned: http://peconicpublicbroadcasting.org/po ... estigators
:!: Flynn takes plea-deal: https://www.npr.org/2017/12/01/56123830 ... ing-to-fbi
:!: Trump's bank records subpoenaed: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... by-mueller

Place your bets on how Trump will end his first-term in the poll above! :AOK

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Last edited by Charon21 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby Charon21 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:05 pm

I never fully weighed-in on this subject.

I don't think Russia flipped the election outcome in any way. I don't think their propaganda or "army of trolls"-nonsense is what decided it, either. I do think it's quite plausible that Trump et. al. may have accepted money from them in ways that break campaign-finance laws, and it would not shock me if he was involved in money-laundering. I also think he has broken the emoluments-clause, though that's not a strictly Russia-related issue (it actually involves worse countries).

It's basically just regular corruption that DC has become accustomed to. I'm all for prosecuting/punishing whoever is guilty of it -- Trump, Clinton, whoever. It's high time we started cracking down on this.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby BF004 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:21 pm

For about the last 12-14 months, everytime I've seen the word Russia, I pretty much just look the other way. No clue what any of this means. Anyone able to fill me in a handful of sentence of what this means and who is who?

Although surely like Charon said, if unethical and possibly breaking of some laws taking pace, likely had minimal to no impact on the actual election. Just figuring things like this, whatever it is, is just common place and if anyone gets caught doing better get their asses kicked though no matter who and what level they are.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby Waldo » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:25 pm

Papadopoulos plea is the end for Trump. (incidentally it also proves that Sessions is guilty of perjury)

His indictment (the actual text it contains), that he pled guilty to, includes the smoking gun. There's no whatabouting out of this.

Trump has gone silent since the news of his arrest/cooperation/guilty plea broke.

Mueller will be fired today. Its the only move Trump has left, and its little more than a stall tactic.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby Waldo » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:27 pm

BF004 wrote:For about the last 12-14 months, everytime I've seen the word Russia, I pretty much just look the other way. No clue what any of this means. Anyone able to fill me in a handful of sentence of what this means and who is who?

Although surely like Charon said, if unethical and possibly breaking of some laws taking pace, likely had minimal to no impact on the actual election. Just figuring things like this, whatever it is, is just common place and if anyone gets caught doing better get their asses kicked though no matter who and what level they are.


Trump's campaign knew about the hacked emails before they were released, and Trump's campaign had the GOP platform shifted on Russia, specifically Crimea, as payment for the release of the emails.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby APB » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:48 pm

Forgive me, Waldo, if I don't take your word - or the reporting of the NYT, CNN, et al - as gospel. The left and complicit media have so overplayed these continual declarations of doom for Trump over the past year that I've grown to ignore pretty much everything they claim as it pertains to the future of Trump and/or Russia.

That said, Papadopoulos sounds like a guy in over his head in regard to who/what he was dealing with. The Russians tried to play him to gain access to the campaign and, as far as I can tell through reporting, his efforts to broker a meeting between this "professor" or Russian govt officials and high level Trump campaign representatives never came to fruition.

What is this smoking gun you're referring to?
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Re: Russiagate

Postby Waldo » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:01 pm

https://twitter.com/kieransuckling/stat ... 5716545536

Keen eyes have spotted something very interesting. There is another indictment, still sealed, with the same grand jury and case # as the Manafort/Gates indictment.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby dirty sanchez » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:20 pm

Waldo wrote:https://twitter.com/kieransuckling/status/925030925716545536

Keen eyes have spotted something very interesting. There is another indictment, still sealed, with the same grand jury and case # as the Manafort/Gates indictment.

<mod edit>
Please stick to the topic and avoid personal attacks.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby APB » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:42 pm

Waldo wrote:https://twitter.com/kieransuckling/status/925030925716545536

Keen eyes have spotted something very interesting. There is another indictment, still sealed, with the same grand jury and case # as the Manafort/Gates indictment.

You may want to read the comments from the twitter link you provided. The (B) doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby wallyuwl » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:52 pm

Does everyone think we are better than Liberia? Because the USA and them are the only two countries that still use Grand Juries. They are a one horse show where the prosecution can say anything they want with no worry about having to rebut a defense, or a defense rebutting them. They are implicitly against the 6th Amendment.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-12-04/ ... didnt-work
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Re: Russiagate

Postby wallyuwl » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:55 pm

Are we really to believe the conclusions of charges peddled by Mueller, who has massive conflicts of interest regarding Russia that we have found out about over the past few weeks, and his team that is largely made up of Democratic donors (and no Republican ones)?
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Re: Russiagate

Postby APB » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:56 pm

wallyuwl wrote:Does everyone think we are better than Liberia? Because the USA and them are the only two countries that still use Grand Juries. They are a one horse show where the prosecution can say anything they want with no worry about having to rebut a defense, or a defense rebutting them. They are implicitly against the 6th Amendment.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-12-04/ ... didnt-work

What is it you're getting at with this? Aside from derailing the discussion, that is...?
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Re: Russiagate

Postby wallyuwl » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:58 pm

APB wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:Does everyone think we are better than Liberia? Because the USA and them are the only two countries that still use Grand Juries. They are a one horse show where the prosecution can say anything they want with no worry about having to rebut a defense, or a defense rebutting them. They are implicitly against the 6th Amendment.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-12-04/ ... didnt-work

What is it you're getting at with this? Aside from derailing the discussion, that is...?


I don't think it is derailing the discussion. The point is that grand juries are implicitly biased - the courtroom a ring for the circus clowns (prosecution) to put on a show to their audience. Nothing more. These charges are due to a Mueller's team entertaining their grand jury audience.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby APB » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:58 pm

wallyuwl wrote:Are we really to believe the conclusions of charges peddled by Mueller, who has massive conflicts of interest regarding Russia that we have found out about over the past few weeks, and his team that is largely made up of Democratic donors (and no Republican ones)?

These are not Mueller's conclusions, they are the grand jury's conclusions. They surmised, after listening to testimony and evidence presented, that a crime was committed and that the named were likely the perpetrators of the crime.
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Re: Russiagate

Postby wallyuwl » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:00 pm

APB wrote:
wallyuwl wrote:Are we really to believe the conclusions of charges peddled by Mueller, who has massive conflicts of interest regarding Russia that we have found out about over the past few weeks, and his team that is largely made up of Democratic donors (and no Republican ones)?

These are not Mueller's conclusions, they are the grand jury's conclusions. They surmised, after listening to testimony and evidence presented, that a crime was committed and that the named were likely the perpetrators of the crime.


That is why I used the word "peddled" by Mueller's team, not "concluded" by them. See my post just above yours I quoted here (they were posted at almost the same time so you likely didn't see it).
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